Clutch or flywheel?
Thread Starter
Track Day
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Hereford, United Kingdom
Clutch or flywheel?
I have a 1990 964 C2, recently the clutch has become very heavy and I sometimes have dificulty engaging 1st, 2nd and sometimes 4th gear. The problem is worse after the car is warm. Does anyone recognaise the symptoms and can help me to understand whether this is simply the clutch wearing out or problems associated with the DMF?
Thanks
Thanks
Racer
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
From: S.Wales UK
I was having trouble with 1st and reverse. The clutch was really stiff as well. I bought a new clutch and a lightweight flywheel and it sorted the problem. I was only going to change the clutch but on inspection the dmf was knackered and needed replacing. Might be worth changing both while your in there.
Thread Starter
Track Day
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Hereford, United Kingdom
Thanks for your advice, I guess I'll end up making the call once it's in pieces. I am just trying to get a view ahead of that time so that I know what to expect.
Last edited by cmm964; Jun 12, 2008 at 07:57 PM. Reason: mistake
Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 570
Likes: 0
From: SF Peninsula
Sounds like you are on the right track. The heavy clutch pedal is a sure sign that the disk is nearly worn down to the rivets. I just did mine last month and it was exhibiting signs like yours. After you do the clutch, whether you do LWF or DMF the pedal should be nice and light. I would recommend the LWF, it really perks up the car especially in roll on acceleration.
Thread Starter
Track Day
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Hereford, United Kingdom
I am still considering the lightweight flywheel option. I can understand how it would improve the 'pick-up' and the 'roll-on' acceleration, but I am concerned that it will also give me a lumpy tickover. This would be ok in a track car but since I sometimes use the car in heavy traffic (around London) that would be an unwelcome side effect. Whatever I decide to do I will post the results so that everyone can benefit from my experiece.
Incidentally, my car has 80k miles on the clock and this will be her third clutch, I'm not sure if this is the usual rate of wear or not? It has spent most of it's life in London and has now move to the country for an easier life!
Incidentally, my car has 80k miles on the clock and this will be her third clutch, I'm not sure if this is the usual rate of wear or not? It has spent most of it's life in London and has now move to the country for an easier life!
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Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 570
Likes: 0
From: SF Peninsula
There is much out there about the downsides to the LWF as far as the stalling, gear rattle, rough or hunting idle (I think that is what you mean as tickover). What I can share is this. My car is MY 1990, I have had an aftermarket chip of unknown origin installed by the PO that I think may be Weltmeister but again I am not sure. The install was performed by a very qualified Porsche Independent. He used factory RS setup with no other mods. I have absolutely NO stalling under any combination of conditions and have not had a single incident now over over 2000 miles since install. My idle is indistinguishable from stock with no audible rattle or clatter. There is though some gear rattle at very low revs when pulling away but otherwise it is fine. Driveability is excelent and the improvements to the cars character are well worth it. Not to mention I now have no worries about that dreaded DMF failure or the associated cost of having to replace it every time or every other time I do the disk, so it is more economical in the long run. I hope this is helpful. If I did not cover something, do ask and I will be sure to answer.
Regards,
Darren
Regards,
Darren
Last edited by 1990-964; Jun 15, 2008 at 02:28 PM. Reason: Typo
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Racer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
From: Bedfordshire UK
I've got a LWF in a 3.8 with 993 Cup cams and the idle is fine. Interior noise is difficlut to comment on as I have no sound deadening and light weight carpets!! The increase in responsiveness is worth it.
The only issues I have, and only very occasionally is that the engine stops on slow downchanges, 4th to 3rd, if not warm. Need a few more revs to pull away but you quickly adjust.
The only issues I have, and only very occasionally is that the engine stops on slow downchanges, 4th to 3rd, if not warm. Need a few more revs to pull away but you quickly adjust.
Race Car
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,922
Likes: 1
From: London, UK
If you have any doubts about a LWF for whatever reason then don't do it. I love it and so do many others, but if you are worried abotu it don't do it. There have been some that have had some issues around stalling and that sort of thing - it sounds like for you an easier life (especially using it around traffic in LOndon sometimes) is higher up the list. These days, if you replace the DMF (which you would do if needed only on inspection of course) you get an updated LUK version is which is far less pronte to decay than the original version. At this stage, you may not have the original DMF in there anyway, but just mentioning it.
So to sum up, I think your problem is with the clutch and it needs to be replaced but I would get the shop to inpsect the flywheel as well and replace with new DMF (LUK) if needed. Its pretty expensive to go back in and do it once the new clutch is in so it may even (vaguely) pay for itself....
Let us know how you get on...
So to sum up, I think your problem is with the clutch and it needs to be replaced but I would get the shop to inpsect the flywheel as well and replace with new DMF (LUK) if needed. Its pretty expensive to go back in and do it once the new clutch is in so it may even (vaguely) pay for itself....
Let us know how you get on...
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,748
Likes: 32
From: London UK & Paris FR
Hi there,
I have mine done at the moment ,I am a bit concerne as well but take the risk, I have a Cartronic ( German tuner) chip and air mass metring system,they fit LWF with this chip so I supose it will work ,I am sure it will be great fun, can't wait ,but I have air condition as well so will let you know next week how it feels .
Konstantin C4
I have mine done at the moment ,I am a bit concerne as well but take the risk, I have a Cartronic ( German tuner) chip and air mass metring system,they fit LWF with this chip so I supose it will work ,I am sure it will be great fun, can't wait ,but I have air condition as well so will let you know next week how it feels .
Konstantin C4
Thread Starter
Track Day
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Hereford, United Kingdom
Thanks to everyone for the advice, being new to the forum I am impressed by everyones desire to help out a fellow enthusiast.
it seems that everyone agrees that a LWT will improve the drivability, but opinion is split as to the issues that might accompany it. I guess the first question is 'does it need replacing' and then if it does I will have a decision to make. I understand that the LUK DMF is superior to the OE item and that might end up being the low risk option for my peace of mind when I'm in 'town'. At the same time I read and hear the advantages in performance, and they sound attractive too. Since I am not against modifying my driving style to accomodate I will be guided by what I find when it is in bits.
I have read elsewhere that some owners have cured a 'notchy' gearbox problem by changing the gearbox oil, has anyone had experience of this and is it desirable even if you don't have a problem?.
Thanks again.
it seems that everyone agrees that a LWT will improve the drivability, but opinion is split as to the issues that might accompany it. I guess the first question is 'does it need replacing' and then if it does I will have a decision to make. I understand that the LUK DMF is superior to the OE item and that might end up being the low risk option for my peace of mind when I'm in 'town'. At the same time I read and hear the advantages in performance, and they sound attractive too. Since I am not against modifying my driving style to accomodate I will be guided by what I find when it is in bits.
I have read elsewhere that some owners have cured a 'notchy' gearbox problem by changing the gearbox oil, has anyone had experience of this and is it desirable even if you don't have a problem?.
Thanks again.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,019
Likes: 0
From: Virginia
I did the oil change a few miles back. It didn't make a huge difference for me, but it does shift smoother. The oil only costs about $50 and I did the change myself. Its cheap, easy, and might help. Might as well try.
Thread Starter
Track Day
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Hereford, United Kingdom
I think I will try the oil change as Mister Risky says it is cheap and even if it doesn't make a huge difference it is probably worth it. His c ar is virtually identical to mine, so worth a punt.
Thanks again
CMM
Thanks again
CMM
