Bearclaw

The effects of the steroids are obvious - but should we talk about that since the car is a legend?

blake

LOL- nice... And they say that the pet dog truly reflects the looks of the person. Perhaps the car is analagous as well...

-B

race911

So, to revisit this.........if any of you guys know of a "driver quality" one of these at a realistic price, keep me in mind. Only requirement would be the sport seats. Miles don't scare me; it would be put in the fleet and be driven regularly.

CrazyCabbie

Just chiming in. Came out to my car two days ago and there was a black 94 speedster parked next to it in the parking garage. Then I come out the next day and there was a BMW Z8. I wish I had choices like that.

ZAMIRZ

Daaaaamn, check out the shift boot, it's snow white. Did you drive this car around with a sock on it or what?

Very fine example, good luck with the sale.

dave morris

I'm a little puzzled by this part of what you said Blake. The RSA would seem to qualify as far as "exclusivity". I agree that the DE & club racing guys have contributed toward keeping RSA prices high. But doesn't the number of "unmolested" (hate that characterization) RSAs simply decline as they are converted to track cars ... thereby, in theory, impacting demand as suppy declines? I noticed that Ray Joseph has an RSA currently for sale for $79,500. I can't imagine anyone other than a collector wanting this car at that price. Under 2000 miles as I recall.
Anyway, I'd be interested in an elaboration of your thoughts on the RSA. Not intending to be a wise-guy. Just want to be sure I understand your point.
Thanks.

race911

Some RSA's just become old cars that no one really wants. I've got one in the backyard that I actually washed and started yesterday for the first time since an off-course last fall. I tried selling it a couple of years ago when a pretty attractive race car presented itself. No serious takers @ $23K. Yeah, it's got 135K miles, but it's better cosmetically than my C4S. So it sits until I start hacking it into a race car sometime.

I don't think it's the same at all with the other "special" 964 variants (turbos, speedsters, America Roadsters......let alone RS's and RSR's). All of those, because of the low, low, low production volume will find buyers at still lofty prices because someone WILL say: "what the hell, I can't pay concours prices", or "I'm going to USE the thing, why do I want to pay concours prices".

At least that's how I see it, 15 years in with messing around with 964 chassis.

dave morris

Sorry to hear about your bad experience trying to sell your RSA for $23K. Where'd you advertise it? I'd guess you'd have better luck if you put it back on the market today. Rennlist and PCA classifieds are pretty effective. And you may be right if you are saying a '94 Speedster w/ 135K miles will sell for more than an RSA with like mileage. I don't know much about '94 Speedsters.

But if you are saying a Speedster is more "special" because it's more "exclusive" ... that's where I'm puzzled. On what basis are you establishing "exclusivity"? The first post in this thread says there were 936 examples of the '94 Speedster. I think there were 701 RSAs. So I guess exclusivity isn't based on production numbers. Must be something else. That's why I asked Blake for clarification.

Thanks for your input.

race911

Most speedsters (either of the 911 varieties) generally weren't beat to hell from day one. And few come up for sale. Maybe just a buy and hold mentality? The thing about a speedster (of 356 or 911 variety) is that it's neat. Fold the top back, slide into those sport seats, look through the cut down windshield and motor along. An RSA? Well, it's pretty much any C2 coupe with cloth seats and no armrests, isn't it? Could be either of my 993's, save for the PITA non-assisted steering.

When I was trying to move the RSA I was NOT going to deal with: cross country (let alone international) transactions, guys who had to sell things first, or potential owners who expected something that a 135K car was NOT. It's an honest car for what it is; and I guess there wasn't a halfway knowledgeable 911 owner of some means in my area of 8 million people who wanted one.

blake

Dave - that is a very good question. I should have elaborated. I chose to use the word *certain* as my qualifier when discussing limited production 911s because only a few gain favor with collecters. I did not mean to infer that exclusive = collectible. Rather, exclusive = better chance of being collectible.

I chose to point out the RSA as a unique example as the "collectors" in this case were "track junkies". For some reason, most "concourse collectors" (for lack of a better term) are not that interested in the RSA, despite its exclusivity of unmolested examples. For example, Ray's $79K RSA has been for sale for many months w/o a buyer. I do agree that as the supply of mint RSAs goes down, the exclusivity will increase and the prices will rise...

Other cars that have been exclusive but not popular include the 964 C4 Lighweight (8 produced from memory). Ray tried to sell one for over a year at $175K. Collectors could have cared less as that run of cars would have been horrible on the track if in fact they were ever raced. We are now seeing renewed interest in the America Roadster (250 units produced). This car was ignored by the collector community until the past year or two. Prices have risen accordingly. And last but not least, I am a HUGE fan of the 92 US Cup. I believe this is a home run as an investment car (45 produced), yet I see very little enthusiasm from the collector community (though this may be changing). I bring it up last as I see that you have one in your stable.... Nice work!

If I could just peg the mind of the collector, I would be a very rich man!

-Blake

Trader220

In the last 4 months I have seen 1/2 a dozen 964 speedsters change hands in the 50's and high 40's. Ray moved on for mid 50's and his RSA has been for sale for nearly a year.

dave morris

Thanks Blake. Interesting and helpful comments. I must admit to being a real dummy when it comes to understanding "collectibility". I just buy cars I think I'll enjoy driving. Incidentally, you may have seen the pictures I posted a week or so ago of the C4 Lightweight. I'd say that guy is a bonafide collector. Bought the car new and I'd bet a lot of money he wouldn't even consider selling it for $175. And he has in fact raced it. And I think his is #15 so more than 8 were made. His wife thinks there were 20. Anyway, thanks again for the thoughtful response.

YYC930

.......

blake

Thanks for the update. Glad to see values are rising...

-Blake