Greg_L

Hi Guys,

Made a few short journeys this morning and on the fourth one the car wouldn't turn over. Just an electrical click. Battery is good, tested at 12.5v. Car push started fine. Think i had this problem temporarily before, but push starting it seemed to fix it. So before i attempt to take the starter motor our for a refurb, is there anything else to check? I read here that the connection to the starter solenoid sometimes gets corroded or comes loose - where abouts is this so i can check?

This all came about as my vw golf wouldn't start yesterday, so i took the 964 to the parts store this morning to get a new fuel pump relay, and now the 964 won't start. Not a good start to the week!

cheers,
Greg

dutchcrunch

clean batter post and cables. check ground strap going to body. even though its looks good clean first. just because the battery is 12.5 volts does not mean its good. need to have tested. can you jump with another car?? if it starts then its the battery.

Greg_L

Battery posts are good. Ground strap good, i recently cleaned up the earth point and tightly would the strap. I tried to jump it off another car this morning and it didn't fire. Also tried one of those battery in a box jumper things but still no joy.

dutchcrunch

i wanted to make sure it was your starter. just out of curiousty. you should put the ground of the jumper cables on the chassis some where other than your battery ground or strap just in case there is some corroision you cannot see. like maybe on the bolt itself that holds the ground strap from battery that way you are taking it out of the system just in case its bad. i do not know how old your car is or how many miles on the car/starter. there is also one more ground strap under car by starter that grounds the chassis to the motor i believe. there is one , i just ordered one from porsche, just have not changed it. i know the red positive battery cables runs directly to the starter and the ground comes from that rear gound strap that goes from the boby to the motor/trans.

well if you do end up removing the starter yourself at least have it tested before you replace and be careful while under the car, you can never have enough jack stands!!!!!!!!

dutchcrunch

i just reread you respones. you need to take that battery out and actually have tested. there are places that do it for free. sometimes if the battery is bad or has an internal short it will not take a jump start.


i had a battery just recently that had over 12 volts but when tested did not put out the amps and was bad. do the simple stuff first as that starter is going to be a job especially with out a lift. really , have the battery tested.

Greg_L

Thanks dc. I'll chek out the battery first. There's a battery shop nearby who do free tests.

The battery did get very low recently, and i had it on charge for 2 days. But since i reinstalled it on Saturday, i must have started the car ok about 12 times.

MisterRisky

Not to pile on, but I, too, would scrutinize the battery pretty hard. When they test the battery at your local auto shop they will not just test the voltage, but test it under a load. Frequently that shows that the voltage you see is only good for a second and then it drops.

The inability to jump it is really odd, however. I agree that I would have suspected that the jump would work. The starter on our cars is such a royal pain in the butt to get too I would check ALL the easy stuff and be dang sure it really is the starter before ripping into the starter.

altarchsa

If you're connecting a good strong alternative power source to your cables / chassis at the battery and it still won't do anything, it's not the battery. You've taken the battery out of the equation by connecting the alternative power directly to the cables.

Bad cables, corroded connections, bad starter motor or a corroded starter solenoid can all cause a "no response" if your battery is good or if an alternative power source is used.

Solenoid sits on top of the starter motor (looks like a small starter motor). I haven't been into a 964 soleniod, but if it is like all the other mechanically designed solenoids I have been into, including older 911's, it is a combination of plates and springs that make contact when power is applied, sending the current to the starter motor and discontinuing the current when the ignition is released. The contacts get corroded over time and it results in a dead, no response. A weak battery combined with a failing solenid can cause the solenoid to fail. Strong power applied to a failing soleniod can sometimes cause it to "clean itself" by burning the corrosion off its plates and it can begin functioning properly again. Solenoid contacts can be cleaned and service restored, but the contacts seem to corrode and fail more quickly. Suggest replacement.

You can check the solenoid and starter motor independenty. For starter motor, apply current directly to the starter motor. For solenoid, short across the solenoid connections (power-in-from-battery to the power-out-to-starter). Sorry I can't remember whether there's a place to easily access the power-in to the starter. Power-in-to-starter may be from an internal connection between the solenoid and the starter motor.

A little dangerous to try this if starter is in the car. You will be cranking the engine without involving the ignition switch, so you should make sure all conditions are suitable for the craking the engine. Suggest you disconnect coils to avoid the engine starting. Suggest more strongly that you remove the starter to check motor and solenoid, it's not that hard once you get the car in the air.

If you can't get the starter to turn over through the direct application of current to starter motor and "shorting across" the solenoid, you've ruled out the battery and cables / connections.

If you apply an alternative current to the solenoid and starter motor turns over, problem is upstream in cables / connections or battery. It's then a tedious task of checking the continuity from one connection to the next, all the way from the battery to starter on the positive side and from battery to ground on the negative side.

My money's on the solenoid if it just went dead all of a sudden, although a bad cable / connection can sometimes also go bad all of a sudden. More likely, they will fail intermittenly, giving you some warning that you have a problem. Same for failing battery or starter motor.



Good luck.

Greg_L

Success !!

I called the local shop but they couldn't test the battery with the car running. I didnt want to have to push start it on a busy road, so i went home.

Based on what altarchsa said, i trusted that the battery was ok and checked the battery earth again and it looked ok. Car still didnt start. Next i tested the engine earth by putting a jump cable from the engine to the chassis - result the car fired up, so it must be a bad engine earth. I then took the jump cable off, and it started again, which is weird. Presumably the engine earth is intermittent. I'll clean it up tomorrow.

Secondly, i got my VW Golf going after changing out the fuel pump relay.
Both cars working again!! i deserve a beer or two!

thanks for everyone's input

hawk911

careful- when my starter went, it was sporadic also. Do you hear any noises out of the ordinary when you try starting with no pop?

Greg_L

Hawk, no strange noises. I'll listen out for them though.

altarchsa

Hope that's it.

Hawks right though. Could be intermittent.

It's a great feeling when you fix it, huh.

dutchcrunch

still have that battery started, mine took a long time to recharge too, this was the battery i was mentioning before that it had voltage and would not start.

now that you have the car running, go get the battery tested and do not assume that its good, just because the car started, does not mean the battery is fine especially if it an older battery, i assure you that 2 days to charge is a very low battery.

hope you dont get too excited and not do it, i do not mean to harp, but do pay attension to what you car is telling you........ its needs attension. i bet a coke and a candy bar that battery is bad.

dutchcrunch

The battery did get very low recently, and i had it on charge for 2 days. But since i reinstalled it on Saturday, i must have started the car ok about 12 times.


your car is telling you something, bad battery,

tbennett017

Be sure to disconnect the battery if you go under the car to mess with any of the starter cables... You don't want to weld a wrench to your car when you touch any positive cable connections with the battery connected...