Bilstein shocks!
02-04-2008, 03:51 PM
#18
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Hi Rich,
It's very good of you to make these enquires for me. Pass on my thanks also to your brother and Frank. I think keeping the discussion on the thread is possibly interesting for others if that's ok with you.
The only other numbers apart from those previous (which were Bilsteins labels attached to the shock bodies) are these which were literally stamped at the end of the damper under the blue plastic shield.
right shock 1307 VE3 5278H1
left shock 4805 VE3 5277H0
Hope this helps.
I'll take a photo of the shocks and then you can see the colour difference also.
Cheers
It's very good of you to make these enquires for me. Pass on my thanks also to your brother and Frank. I think keeping the discussion on the thread is possibly interesting for others if that's ok with you.
The only other numbers apart from those previous (which were Bilsteins labels attached to the shock bodies) are these which were literally stamped at the end of the damper under the blue plastic shield.
right shock 1307 VE3 5278H1
left shock 4805 VE3 5277H0
Hope this helps.
I'll take a photo of the shocks and then you can see the colour difference also.
Cheers
- VE3 5278H1 and VE3 5277H0 are correct and legitimate part numbers for genuine Bilstein shocks. There have been some stolen Bilstein shocks circulating the market following a theft from the company but yours are legitimate so absolutely no issues there.
- 1307 VE3 5278H1 This tells us your right shock was built by Bilstein in week 13 of 2007 - so late March 2007.
- 4805 VE3 5277H0 This means your left shock was built by Bilstein in week 48 of 2005 - late November 2005!
So, your left shock is approx 16 months older than the right shock - and the manufacturing (finishing) process was changed between manufacturing dates. Frank doesn't know exactly when the finishing process was changed for these particular shocks - as you'll appreciate they produce millions of shocks in 1000s of different models each year, all with different specifications.
He did assure me that both of your shocks are exactly the same mechanical specification and the usual very high Bilstein quality.
I guess you'll discover your rear shocks have a build date closer to that of your 1307 front shock hence the same finish.
I suggest if you're not happy to fit the differently finished (05) shock you'll have to return it to your supplier and ask for a replacement later shock with a matching finish.
Paul, hope this has helped you in some way.
Regards,
Rich (PS If you ever visit the Porsche Club GB forum I'm know as RSGulp over there.
)
02-04-2008, 04:48 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
The gold shock on the right is cadmium plated which is no longer environmentally acceptable in Germany and I bet it is the oldest one of the two, the 4805 VE3 5277H0
Hence, you will probably have better luck matching the silver one than the gold one.
If'n you buy bolts for your 964 at the Porsche dealer, don't be surprised if you get silver ones like the shock on the left when your originals were gold like on the right.
A bummer if you are trying to be "concours correct" in a restoration or service.
02-04-2008, 05:10 PM
#21
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Hi Rich,
Thanks very much for that very informative and detail explanation.
As you can imagin i'm a bit pi**ed that 'Pelican Parts' supplied me old stock. I'll be straight on to them to see what they have to say, as now thanks to you i've got the facts. May be they thought as i'm in the UK they'll get shut of them.
Hawk911 .... in answer to your question, as i have already stated ..... Pelican Parts! ... i'll post up what thier response is. For you folks wondering why purchase from the States when you're in UK ..... well the price! a saving in some instances of well over £250. I bought also on recommendation from a guy who had ordered the exactly same parts with no problem .... just goes to show i guess, like i said earlier, you pays your money to takes your chance!!!
Thanks very much for that very informative and detail explanation.
As you can imagin i'm a bit pi**ed that 'Pelican Parts' supplied me old stock. I'll be straight on to them to see what they have to say, as now thanks to you i've got the facts. May be they thought as i'm in the UK they'll get shut of them.
Hawk911 .... in answer to your question, as i have already stated ..... Pelican Parts! ... i'll post up what thier response is. For you folks wondering why purchase from the States when you're in UK ..... well the price! a saving in some instances of well over £250. I bought also on recommendation from a guy who had ordered the exactly same parts with no problem .... just goes to show i guess, like i said earlier, you pays your money to takes your chance!!!
02-04-2008, 05:14 PM
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FWIW, I just ordered from shox.com. I hate their web interface, their form is a PITA. But they had the best price once shipping was considered (I can't speak to international shipping, only US shipping).
I know this is no help to Paul, but maybe for others.
I know this is no help to Paul, but maybe for others.
02-04-2008, 05:53 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
Paul-
I won't advise you what to do, but in one of my previous lives I worked the engineering for aftermarket shock design. Damping rates, sizing, etc.
Periodic changes like you've seen on the exterior of your shocks do take place, as do changes to the interior components. Changes occur for a whole host of reasons, and in this case I think Cupcar was spot-on for his ID'ing cad-withdrawal from the German production market as the motivator for what you see.
I've got no heartburn with that at all....
But... one of the other things that changes, if ever so slightly, are unannounced changes in damping components/rates.
You see, Aftermarket divisions are free to design a shock any way they can so as to nearly approximate the damping compression/rebound force-velocity curves of the original. (They work against historic data that was taken from shocks that were removed and tested at the time off 'factory-fresh' Porsches. This, even though Bilstein's OEM-side of the house may have been producing the very shocks that were being tested by the Aftermarket side of the house. I know that sounds crude, but that's the way we did it. The factory (Porsche, in this case) doesn't like having unlicensed competition of 'factory correct' components -- even from it's own supplier. [Especially from it's own supplier! lol] And Bilstein would rather make a license-free profit. So, today, when Bilstein-Aftermarket's looking to put out a new valving do-hickey, I'm betting they'll size it off that historic 964 force-velocity curve in their files.
That new valving is going to be a close -- but not perfect approximation -- to the old data sheets. As was the one that preceded it. But only the best of the best factory driver's butt could discriminate between those three shock's ride.
My pause was the potential of mixing two such shock valvings on the same car.
That side-to-side difference is just not worth the question mark that'll always rear its head as you ponder every handling quirk from now on. (<--- those are only my opinion -- backed by no evidence -- @ how I'd feel about my car.)
There's probably no problem, here, at all.
Still, now that you know of age discrepancy between the two -- it'd give me pause, too.
If returning's an option -- I'd opt to do so on my car for potential cause and peace of mind.
I got no fights or connection w/ Pelican. Been a highly satisfied customer of theirs and will be again. (Hear that, Pelican! -- I Love You Guys! [says he who wishes as many options as possible against Factory prices...
]
Good luck with your 'new' ride!
-Lonnie
Oh -- and Paul -- that's a mighty tall, cold one
you owe Rich's.. brother's... neighbor (-- or, whatever) for that inner-Bilstein info. [Still an amazing peice of internet connection/communication to me. So many hurdles so cleanly jumped at once.]
And Rich -- RSGulp -- you rock! You really helped thread that needle. Stand up and take a bow!
I won't advise you what to do, but in one of my previous lives I worked the engineering for aftermarket shock design. Damping rates, sizing, etc.
Periodic changes like you've seen on the exterior of your shocks do take place, as do changes to the interior components. Changes occur for a whole host of reasons, and in this case I think Cupcar was spot-on for his ID'ing cad-withdrawal from the German production market as the motivator for what you see.
I've got no heartburn with that at all....
But... one of the other things that changes, if ever so slightly, are unannounced changes in damping components/rates.
You see, Aftermarket divisions are free to design a shock any way they can so as to nearly approximate the damping compression/rebound force-velocity curves of the original. (They work against historic data that was taken from shocks that were removed and tested at the time off 'factory-fresh' Porsches. This, even though Bilstein's OEM-side of the house may have been producing the very shocks that were being tested by the Aftermarket side of the house. I know that sounds crude, but that's the way we did it. The factory (Porsche, in this case) doesn't like having unlicensed competition of 'factory correct' components -- even from it's own supplier. [Especially from it's own supplier! lol] And Bilstein would rather make a license-free profit. So, today, when Bilstein-Aftermarket's looking to put out a new valving do-hickey, I'm betting they'll size it off that historic 964 force-velocity curve in their files.
That new valving is going to be a close -- but not perfect approximation -- to the old data sheets. As was the one that preceded it. But only the best of the best factory driver's butt could discriminate between those three shock's ride.
My pause was the potential of mixing two such shock valvings on the same car.
That side-to-side difference is just not worth the question mark that'll always rear its head as you ponder every handling quirk from now on. (<--- those are only my opinion -- backed by no evidence -- @ how I'd feel about my car.)
There's probably no problem, here, at all.
Still, now that you know of age discrepancy between the two -- it'd give me pause, too.
If returning's an option -- I'd opt to do so on my car for potential cause and peace of mind.
I got no fights or connection w/ Pelican. Been a highly satisfied customer of theirs and will be again. (Hear that, Pelican! -- I Love You Guys! [says he who wishes as many options as possible against Factory prices...
]Good luck with your 'new' ride!
-Lonnie
Oh -- and Paul -- that's a mighty tall, cold one
you owe Rich's.. brother's... neighbor (-- or, whatever) for that inner-Bilstein info. [Still an amazing peice of internet connection/communication to me. So many hurdles so cleanly jumped at once.]And Rich -- RSGulp -- you rock! You really helped thread that needle. Stand up and take a bow!
Last edited by elbeee964; 02-04-2008 at 06:52 PM.
02-04-2008, 06:07 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
FWIW #1 If you can't match the production dates, Bilstein offers shock valving services and, for a fee , can check and will match the shock valving (if they are not matched already).
FWIW #2 Bilstein and Shox.com are both in San Diego, Ca.(Poway and El Cajon are suberbs) and I think when shocks are ordered they get them direct from Bilstein.
Bilstein AFTERMARKET & MOTORSPORTS
HEADQUARTERS - WEST
14102 Stowe Drive
Poway, CA. 92064
1-858-386-5900
FWIW #2 Bilstein and Shox.com are both in San Diego, Ca.(Poway and El Cajon are suberbs) and I think when shocks are ordered they get them direct from Bilstein.
Bilstein AFTERMARKET & MOTORSPORTS
HEADQUARTERS - WEST
14102 Stowe Drive
Poway, CA. 92064
1-858-386-5900
02-04-2008, 06:20 PM
#27
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Thanks for the very informative responses.
I paused initially before posting the thread as i thought i must be loosing the plot having concerns about something as unassuming as colour!! you learn something every day
Very much appreciate your replies.
As you have guessed i have emailed Pelican with the hope that i can replace the 'offending' 2005 shock.
I paused initially before posting the thread as i thought i must be loosing the plot having concerns about something as unassuming as colour!! you learn something every day
Very much appreciate your replies.
As you have guessed i have emailed Pelican with the hope that i can replace the 'offending' 2005 shock.
Last edited by polar964; 02-04-2008 at 06:54 PM.
02-08-2008, 04:42 PM
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Update ...... not having much success in getting Pelican to swap the front strut without me incurring shipment charges despite have reiterated the fact that changes in manufacturing processes means that technically the spec of the shock could be different. If they had took the care and time to have properly paired the shocks, i wouldn't be in this situation now. The strange thing is, if it wasn't for the colour difference i would have been non the wiser on manufacturing age. I've been advised to have the shocks dyno tested to ensure that the damp rates match. Pelicans reply on this occasion was
"If it does prove to not be compatible we would need a copy of the test saying that and then we could forward it to the supplier and work with you about getting it exchanged at their cost."
My reply was "I have placed my order with Pelican Parts, not your supplier. The responsibility is with Pelican Parts as this is with whom I have made my purchase and with whom payment for the Bilstein's shocks was made. If Pelican Parts is 100% confident with the products they have supplied, which, incidentally is what you want me to be, then Pelican parts should agree to a full an total refund if the test results prove that the Bilsteins are incompatible."
With this experience, you folks beware when purchasing your Bilsteins!! what you are ordering is not always what you think you might get!!
"If it does prove to not be compatible we would need a copy of the test saying that and then we could forward it to the supplier and work with you about getting it exchanged at their cost."
My reply was "I have placed my order with Pelican Parts, not your supplier. The responsibility is with Pelican Parts as this is with whom I have made my purchase and with whom payment for the Bilstein's shocks was made. If Pelican Parts is 100% confident with the products they have supplied, which, incidentally is what you want me to be, then Pelican parts should agree to a full an total refund if the test results prove that the Bilsteins are incompatible."
With this experience, you folks beware when purchasing your Bilsteins!! what you are ordering is not always what you think you might get!!
