Seight

My car is in for its annual service and is having a few other bits and pieces sorted at the same time. (My rear nearside bearings have worn out and damaged the hub! Damn, so that's a bit pricey but it has to be done. And my sunroof packed up a ew months ago so they are fixing that too so as you can imagine it's a pricey service this year).

I've also asked them to replace all the worn rubber in the front with new Powerflex poly bushes. Apparently for the slight differential in cost it seems to make more sense to replace the actual wishbones too. They have quoted me £650 to replace the front wishbones and all the rubber mounts in the steering and suspension with powerflex and do a full 4-wheel alignment and geometry set-up. Does this price seem reasonable? (They are a very reputable specialist in central London and did my clutch last year during the service and did a great job.) I have already agreed for them to go ahead and do it so it's a bit late to baulk but I was just wondering if any of you guys had a view on the price and the worthwhilness (ed) of doing it. Will the handling be dramatically improved? It seemed pretty good anyway, but I looked at the rubbers with them and they are definitely shot. Plus I don't intend on selling this car so I want it to be as good as it can be.

So, recap. Price OK? Handling improvements?

Thanks in advance
Alex

Red rooster

Alex,

So you are having Powerflex bushes put in the new wishbones ? That will raise the price . I do not understand that move !!
Have a great 2008 .

Geoff
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KS400200,the oldest 964 on Rennlist,unless you know differently !

Christer

Hi

The price seems ok to me, The wishbones are normally areound £200 each anyway, and rather than have the standard rubber bushes installed, powerflex seems to be the replacement choice. This is usually done on an exchange basis - so get the garage to prepare the new pair with powerflex bushes so that there is no waiting (not sure how long it takes). You will definitely notice this under hard braking (less squirming) and the steering should be sharpened up.

Christer

Well, I should say that the wishbones are never worn out - it is the rubber bushes but Porsche rip you off by charging for complete items - if you go to a garage that has exsiting wishbones that can be installed with powerflex bushes then this will be considerably cheaper! (and done on an exchange basis)....

IanR

If the £650 includes the cost of the wishbones, bushes, fitting and full alignment it's a very good price.

Computamedic

Alex,

Geoff hit the nail on the head above. The "Porsche" recommended thing to do is to replace the wishbone complete - which comes WITH the new rubber bushes already installed. They are not designed to be replaced separately because the Porsche bushes are designed with internal voids which have to be aligned correctly to the axis - and since you can't see the voids that's pretty difficult.

To take new wishbones and remove the new bushes in order to replace them with Polyflex bushes is absolute madness. There is no advantage compared to replacing the bushes in the old wishbones and save yourself the £400+.

The Polyflex bushes don't have the internal voids so the replacement issue doesn't arise - it's just a bit of a PITA to get the old ones out since they're not designed to come out easy. The somewhat harder material in the Powerflex parts gives a less "squishy" feel than you might get with the originals. Each to his own I guess.

The price you gave doesn't sound too bad. If you reckon on the wishbones being £200 each and a decent alignment about the same you're pretty close.

Regards

Dave

Seight

Thanks for your responses guys. I have spoken to them again and I was mistaken - they are re-bushing my existing wishbones, fitting and doing a full 4 wheel alignment/geometry set up. Still OK for £650??
What they had said was that due to the fact my bushes were knackered, it made more sense to re-bush with powerflex than to have to replace the entire wishbones - as Porsche sell the wishbones and bushes as a unit. (as you guys pointed out).
I'll get the car back next week sometime and will let you know what if any difference I can feel.

Thanks again
Alex

Computamedic

Alex,

At least that makes more sense. You don't really save that much by getting someone else to change the bushes - you just pay more for labour and less for parts. The price is pretty much what you would expect for a decent job.

It will be interesting to hear your views on the Powerflex bushes.

Regards

Dave

demonfish

give Chris at Centre Gravity a call - he is a powerflex dealer, and is a geo wiz - no affiliation..you may have seen him mentioned...

While you are doing that work (which i am about to) to avoid need for realignment, i'd replace balljoints, trackrod ends and gaitors... (£150 odd in parts)

i'm still undecided whether to go powerflex or new standard bushes... or phospor bronze, whatever that is, i've still to investigate...

boxsey911

For those thinking of powerflux bushes for the wishbones, this thread is worth a read:

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ht=poly+bushes

It starts with a tale of woe but most contributors to the thread have only had good experiences with the poly bushes.

BTW the whole price sounds good to me if it includes a comprehensive Geo. I would also check that they are going to change the ARB (sway bar) bushes at the same time.

kris

It was a difficult job to remove the original bushes, the rest of the job is fairly easy. Like most things it should be much easier a second time. The ride and handling did improve quite a bit. It is a very good product.

Christer

Having re-read my posts - this is what I meant....

I am doing this next time myself.

Seight

For those of you interested in the results, I picked my car up yesterday after having all of the work done. I then proceeded to take it on a 30 mile jaunt around some twisties in Kent on my way home - even though I only live 8 miles from the garage.
I can definitely say the car feels more solid on the front, less tramlining, less squirming under hard braking and definitely less understeer. The steering feels a bit more weighted in the turn and the turn-in is is a little more aggressive. All in all a definite and welcome improvement. All quite subtle changes but together they make the car more predictable and sure-footed.
The old rubber bushes were very worn, replaced with new Powerflex poly bushes and a whole geometry set-up. There is very slightly more negative camber both front and rear than before. So the improvemenst come from all of these factors, not just the fact that poly bushes have been installed. FYI I also have a strut brace on the front.

Alex

RallyJon

Can you expand on that a bit?

How are the voids aligned? What is their purpose? Is there an axis of deflection that is more "allowed" than others? Perhaps just a concession to ride quality, or could it be something more--maybe a toe change under certain circumstances?

John McM

Just visited a site sponsor, FVD, and saw that they have a new online item, a "repairkit for Control arm front 964/993 FVD 341 999". Looks like a quality kit [almost like OEM], and not too expensive. Is this new to market? Has anyone had experience with it?