Real Deal 964 Euro RS.
12-28-2007, 12:58 PM
#31
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It is my understanding that all the 25 cars that initially went to Andial for race preparation ... all went right back to Andial after the series cratered ... and all the "race items" were removed. I suppose that's why I'm always amused and somewhat puzzled when owners proudly identify their cars as "Andial" cars. Incidentally, I'd sure like to see the 3 pages of modes you referred to ...
12-28-2007, 01:05 PM
#32
Nordschleife Master
I didn't know that about your car...very cool. The cage in your cage is actually welded in more places to the chassis than mine...one bead all the way down the A and B pillars, whereas I have only a few ~2" long welds. I think Steve Berlack's car may have also ben reconverted by Andial. His is cage is also unusual, in that every weld is filled an sanded smooth! Apparently is was a show car at some point.
12-28-2007, 01:27 PM
#33
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Guys, I am not saying that USA Cups are bad, just that they are different (and I'd love to add one to the stable). The fact is that being "not factory" will always matter to some. Many of the cars had the cages added back in. Yes they may have been done just as good if not better than the factory...but it was still not done at the factory. I think only time will tell if they are worth more or less than a Euro RS. Right now, a federalized euro RS looks to be worth more, in part because there are so few in the US. If the exchange rate ever changes, that may reverse, as there were far fewer USAs produced.
-Bruce
12-28-2007, 01:46 PM
#34
Drifting
Well there are at least 2 cars that were reconverted back to racing specs by Andial because I own one as well. My car was sold by Jim Ellis to Kelly Moss and then car was sent to Andial for the 20K conversion back to race car specs (12K in parts and 8 K for installation) they also installed RSR/962 Ti valve spring retainers, not part of the "Stock" cup package. Now I know this factory Vs. not factory thing comes up everytime we talk about Us cups but if Kelley Moss, which knows a thing or two about building race cars, sent a car to Andial for a 20K conversion there must of been a good reason to do that. As far as these not having race history - mine and a few others I'm sure, ran in IMSA, which last time I checked was a real race sactioning body running real races.
Phil
Phil
12-28-2007, 02:17 PM
#35
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the "factory" vs. "non-factory" argument really does not make much sense.
if you are refering to who welded in the cage - sure your right, if you are refering to the car as a whole you are not correct.
Porsche imported the cars as Street cars (RS's with USA VIN #'s) then the factory contracted with Andial (which was the Porsche Racing sub in the US) to do the conversion to track spec's.
this was the same premiss the factory used for the European Cup cars BTW. They were RS's they one differece here is WHO did the work the factory in Germany or the Contractor for racing operations in North America.
all USA cups were delivered as street cars from a US dealer - SOME were reconverted back to Race spec's by various companies for various owners (there are several which returned to Andial but were "delivered" to the new owner as a street car prior to this reconversion (at least 1 never left andial before being re-converted back to a street car)
As far which is more valuable - depends on what you want.
a Federalized Euro RS is something the masses will know - and is very cool and desirible
a Euro Cup car is a great track car
a USA cup is not well known but is street legal.
Take your pick and pay your $80-100K
if you are refering to who welded in the cage - sure your right, if you are refering to the car as a whole you are not correct.
Porsche imported the cars as Street cars (RS's with USA VIN #'s) then the factory contracted with Andial (which was the Porsche Racing sub in the US) to do the conversion to track spec's.
this was the same premiss the factory used for the European Cup cars BTW. They were RS's they one differece here is WHO did the work the factory in Germany or the Contractor for racing operations in North America.
all USA cups were delivered as street cars from a US dealer - SOME were reconverted back to Race spec's by various companies for various owners (there are several which returned to Andial but were "delivered" to the new owner as a street car prior to this reconversion (at least 1 never left andial before being re-converted back to a street car)
As far which is more valuable - depends on what you want.
a Federalized Euro RS is something the masses will know - and is very cool and desirible
a Euro Cup car is a great track car
a USA cup is not well known but is street legal.
Take your pick and pay your $80-100K
12-28-2007, 03:26 PM
#37
Nordschleife Master
12-29-2007, 11:54 PM
#39
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Well there are at least 2 cars that were reconverted back to racing specs by Andial because I own one as well. My car was sold by Jim Ellis to Kelly Moss and then car was sent to Andial for the 20K conversion back to race car specs (12K in parts and 8 K for installation) they also installed RSR/962 Ti valve spring retainers, not part of the "Stock" cup package. Now I know this factory Vs. not factory thing comes up everytime we talk about Us cups but if Kelley Moss, which knows a thing or two about building race cars, sent a car to Andial for a 20K conversion there must of been a good reason to do that. As far as these not having race history - mine and a few others I'm sure, ran in IMSA, which last time I checked was a real race sactioning body running real races.
Phil
Phil
12-30-2007, 12:19 AM
#40
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I didn't know that about your car...very cool. The cage in your cage is actually welded in more places to the chassis than mine...one bead all the way down the A and B pillars, whereas I have only a few ~2" long welds. I think Steve Berlack's car may have also ben reconverted by Andial. His is cage is also unusual, in that every weld is filled an sanded smooth! Apparently is was a show car at some point.
12-30-2007, 12:48 PM
#41
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Sorry, didn't see this. After the car was on its roof at watkins Glen in 2000, the cage was reinforced while at Automobile Associates getting some new body panels, etc. I don't know how different it is from when it left Andial.
12-30-2007, 01:32 PM
#42
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is there a paper trail on the Re-Conversion to race spec by Andial?
i would love to see it and add it to the Documentation store i have on these cars. So far i have not been able to source that peice of the puizzle (i do have receipts and work orders for other shops which re-did the conversion after the cars were sold via the dealerships.
i also have the same info for a few of the cars that were converted to RSR spec's etc.
i would love to see it and add it to the Documentation store i have on these cars. So far i have not been able to source that peice of the puizzle (i do have receipts and work orders for other shops which re-did the conversion after the cars were sold via the dealerships.
i also have the same info for a few of the cars that were converted to RSR spec's etc.
12-30-2007, 04:00 PM
#44
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12-30-2007, 04:39 PM
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Their work was outstanding based on how the car looks now. Anything bent was replaced with new parts. Nothing else, to my knowledge, was changed. The PO (original owner) had the work done and I have all pictures and receipts.