seanpower

I received the crushing news the other day, that my "new" car, a beautiful 1994 964 C4, has an engine that needs to be re-sealed. I live in in the midwest and have taken it to the top two Porsche speciality shops, and have received the same diagnosis. Neither are sure whether it is a broken head stud, leaking base gasket or case through bolt seals, but they are sure of one thing: it is leaking way too much oil, and the engine needs to come out to determine why and fix it.

So after nearly vomiting when I heard the estimates of what this will cost me, and drinking a few stiff cocktails over the past week, I have recovered from the shock and have made the decision to do the repair and drive the car, as opposed to selling it for under value and letting someone else do it. (Insert here: I Told You so's here for falling in love with a car and not getting a PPI - a mistake I will only make once. Coincidentally, I sold my Audi S4 to purchase the car, for worries that some day i would be stuck with an expensive repair should the turbos go out). I digress. The 964 has 67,000ish miles, and is in very good shape otherwise.

My questions for the group are: What should I ask the mechanic specialists to help me determine their acumen in this area? As I understand the whole engine will be coming out, what other repairs/upgrades should I consider while the engine is out (keeping in mind I have a limited budget that is mostly going to be absorbed by the repair itself)?

Marc Shaw

Is the clutch in decent shape? It would be a good idea to seriously consider replacing it at the same time as most of the cost with a clutch change is labour and you will be 90% of the way there already.

Marc

38D

Where are you located? There are a number of good shops in the midwest.

DrJupeman

How bad is the leak? Pics?

stevepaa

gee, that' strange that it is leaking so much at so little miles. Do you have any pics? You might find that it is only the breather tube on top of the engine that has dried out and is leaking. When it leaks it looks like the enitre rigtht side o the engine underneath is leaking.
I would try to track down the leaks before you send to shop.

springer3

Agree. You can check the head studs with the engine in the car, and loose/broken studs are not a problem on low-mileage cars. The oil pressure sending unit is a notorious leaker, and that can be fixed (find Garrett's excellent thread for that). If the oil tank is over-filled by just a quart, there will be quite a bit of oil dripping out of the intake system onto the top of the engine.

Most oil leaks can be fixed with the engine in the car. The flywheel-end crankshaft seal requires engine removal. If that happened, you will probably have an oiled clutch, and it should be replaced for that.

Rocket Rob

I would get a second mechanic to look at the leak. About 10 years ago, I had a dealer tell me that I need a total engine reseal with an estimated cost of $11K plus parts. I declined. I took it to another mechanic and they found two oil leaks. One was the oil pressure sensor and the other was an oil line. Total cost of repair was "only" $1,000.

Edit: When I heard the $11K estimate for the reseal, I said that sounds like a rebuild. The dealer said "No sir. A rebuild is $18K plus parts". Those prices were ridiculous. Sheesh!

garrett376

Hi Sean, sorry to hear about your bad news. How did you realize the leak? A big pool on the ground?

One good thing is that usually the head studs do not break on these cars. Another good thing is that the 964's engine is so well wrapped up, that until you actually find out what's leaking, someone's speculation on where it's leaking should be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned above, there are so many different possible things that can leak - most of them can be addressed without taking the engine out. And most of them are the result of a 14 year old $2.00 o-ring needing replacement.

Where it gets really expensive is when you start considering all of the "while you're in there" business. 67,000 miles is not much, so it is unlikely you'd need a valve job, new pistons/cylinders, cam chains, cam & rocker resurfacing, piston rings, etc. If I was in your shoes and needed to pay someone to do the work, I'd just fix the leak and enjoy your car.

doubleurx

Also, $11,000 sounds like a re-build not a re-seal. I got a quote to reseal mine for $3800. They said not to bother as the leak is very minor.

Clutch and flywheel while they are in there if you have the original stock units would probably be a good idea if the reseal is required.

SimonM

I second the advice about getting a second opinion. A few weeks ago I took mine for a 12k service to a local specialist. They did the work, but also advised that I needed a total engine rebuild, including oil pump and camshafts, which they would be happy to do for me in exchange for around £9k. When I questioned whether this was really neccessary they told me about another customer who had ignored their advice and who's engine had seized the week after.

Not totally convinced by this, I took the car to a second specialist of national repute who, after having the car for a day, said that they would rebuild the engine if I really wanted them to but in their opinion I'd be wasting my money as it was fine - in fact one of the driest they'd seen.

I won't be darkening the door of the first lot again.

911addict

Yeh, how serious is the leak? Pool of oil, or just wet to touch? How much oil do you have to top up every 1000 miles?

I had a garage tell me I 'need' a rebuild. As this is my 3rd 'classic' 911 I knew not to worry about small leaks. Several shops since have said it doesn't need it and my motor is in great shape. I've had lots of oil pipe work done, but no major engine work.

Bull

If the engine is just "wet", congratulations....911s like to mark their territory. If you have oil pooling on the ground, or enough oil dripping so as to get on the heat exchangers, etc. and cause unpleasant smells and smoke, you likely need a reseal.

A proper reseal, where "weak" items like head studs, etc. are also replaced along with all seals/gaskets, should not cost over $6,000-$6,500.

Ray986

Wow, quite a spread ($3K - $18K) for a reseal/rebuild. Anyone try a rebuild company like Motor Meister (no affiliation) in California? Their ad in Panorama states a complete rebuild for a 3.6 ltr at $5.5K and offers a number of racing upgrades?

Ray986

mjshira

I would recommend you get a good used 993 engine and a clutch and have them installed and be on your way for many miles. then sell your current engine for running rebuild value. When you get a used car you get a used car. I recently sold one of my cars that had been running great, less than 1000 miles later it threw a rod berring. I had put nearly 10k into that car and most of it into engine externals. So ya just never know. Getting a 964 sorted is expensive.

Marc Shaw

Search here and the Pelican site for people's views of Motor Meister - not many have anything good to say about them.

Marc