Has The 964 Hit The Bottom in Depreciation?
11-25-2007, 06:38 PM
#46
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Wow, what a brave post. Since I'm well past my 20's, I'll try to respond in a positive and mature manner to some of your observations. 
Cool? Are you saying your generation feels a four door sedan with large aero wing is cooler than a 911? One's a suped up grocery getter while the other is an iconic sports car.
Sucky performance? Please. Have you been to the track and seen how these 15 year old NA 911's square off with some of the cool cars you mentioned? Outside of the later Z06's and M3's, there aren't many street cars which can keep up.
Bridge to a 993? I may be going out on a limb, here, but I don't think people buy 964's simply because they can't afford a 993. Sure there are some that subsequently make that move but I personally don't know a lot of people who spend >$20K on something that they don't really want.
I'm glad you're a fan and know you were just playing devil's advocate.
Hope you get to enjoy your own 964 some day--trust me, they're worth the money!
The bad: My generation is used to other cars being cool. Ferraris and Porsches sometimes seem unattainable, but really the performance of a 15 year old Porsche sucks compared to a WRX STi or Corvette. Most of the people on this board have probably long since stopped laughing at Lancer Evos and Honda's rev rocket. Once people realize that a 15 year old NA 911 is not that fast, it might lose some of the magic.
Personally, I love Porsches and 911s in particular. The 964 is the last 911 that looks like a 911. It is a great compromise of power and style. However, it is a bridge to the 993. It almost makes the car a niche vehicle.
Just my opinion. I really just want to devalue the car until I buy one.
Personally, I love Porsches and 911s in particular. The 964 is the last 911 that looks like a 911. It is a great compromise of power and style. However, it is a bridge to the 993. It almost makes the car a niche vehicle.
Just my opinion. I really just want to devalue the car until I buy one.
Sucky performance? Please. Have you been to the track and seen how these 15 year old NA 911's square off with some of the cool cars you mentioned? Outside of the later Z06's and M3's, there aren't many street cars which can keep up.
Bridge to a 993? I may be going out on a limb, here, but I don't think people buy 964's simply because they can't afford a 993. Sure there are some that subsequently make that move but I personally don't know a lot of people who spend >$20K on something that they don't really want.
I'm glad you're a fan and know you were just playing devil's advocate.
Hope you get to enjoy your own 964 some day--trust me, they're worth the money!
11-25-2007, 06:43 PM
#47
Wow, what a brave post. Since I'm well past my 20's, I'll try to respond in a positive and mature manner to some of your observations.
Cool? Are you saying your generation feels a four door sedan with large aero wing is cooler than a 911? One's a suped up grocery getter while the other is an iconic sports car.
Sucky performance? Please. Have you been to the track and seen how these 15 year old NA 911's square off with some of the cool cars you mentioned? Outside of the later Z06's and M3's, there aren't many street cars which can keep up.
Bridge to a 993? I may be going out on a limb, here, but I don't think people buy 964's simply because they can't afford a 993. Sure there are some that make the move but I personally don't know a lot of people who spend >$20K on something that they don't really want.
I'm glad you're a fan and know you were just playing devil's advocate. Hope you get to enjoy your own 964 some day--trust me, they're worth the money!
Cool? Are you saying your generation feels a four door sedan with large aero wing is cooler than a 911? One's a suped up grocery getter while the other is an iconic sports car.
Sucky performance? Please. Have you been to the track and seen how these 15 year old NA 911's square off with some of the cool cars you mentioned? Outside of the later Z06's and M3's, there aren't many street cars which can keep up.
Bridge to a 993? I may be going out on a limb, here, but I don't think people buy 964's simply because they can't afford a 993. Sure there are some that make the move but I personally don't know a lot of people who spend >$20K on something that they don't really want.
I'm glad you're a fan and know you were just playing devil's advocate.
Hope you get to enjoy your own 964 some day--trust me, they're worth the money!
11-25-2007, 06:54 PM
#48
Advanced
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Connecticut/USA
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL!
In my early twenties, I bought a 4-year-old 944 and was in Heaven. Since my first car was a '68 Beetle, this was quite a jump. For me, it was a great combination of looks and power - for the time. I drove that thing until the odometer read nearly 250K miles, and it still looked and ran great. Granted, the resale value on the car was only a few grand at the point I stopped driving it, but even so, you'd be hard pressed to get as much fun in a car (even with the high miles) for so little money.
A few years ago, I got my '87 Carrera (sent my 944 to AZ to live with my father) and it was great to get back to my air-cooled roots. But it was a definite step backwards on the "creature comfort" scale. For me, getting my '92 Turbo strikes a fine balance between modern-enough styling and comfort, and incredible power (with the mods done to this car, it holds its own just fine against the high-school kids in their Asian rockets.)
Besides, for us, there ain't nothing like a Porsche - in any flavor!
In my early twenties, I bought a 4-year-old 944 and was in Heaven. Since my first car was a '68 Beetle, this was quite a jump. For me, it was a great combination of looks and power - for the time. I drove that thing until the odometer read nearly 250K miles, and it still looked and ran great. Granted, the resale value on the car was only a few grand at the point I stopped driving it, but even so, you'd be hard pressed to get as much fun in a car (even with the high miles) for so little money.
A few years ago, I got my '87 Carrera (sent my 944 to AZ to live with my father) and it was great to get back to my air-cooled roots. But it was a definite step backwards on the "creature comfort" scale. For me, getting my '92 Turbo strikes a fine balance between modern-enough styling and comfort, and incredible power (with the mods done to this car, it holds its own just fine against the high-school kids in their Asian rockets.)
Besides, for us, there ain't nothing like a Porsche - in any flavor!
11-25-2007, 11:24 PM
#49
Intermediate
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Del Rio, TX
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, what a brave post. Since I'm well past my 20's, I'll try to respond in a positive and mature manner to some of your observations.
Cool? Are you saying your generation feels a four door sedan with large aero wing is cooler than a 911? One's a suped up grocery getter while the other is an iconic sports car.
Sucky performance? Please. Have you been to the track and seen how these 15 year old NA 911's square off with some of the cool cars you mentioned? Outside of the later Z06's and M3's, there aren't many street cars which can keep up.
Bridge to a 993? I may be going out on a limb, here, but I don't think people buy 964's simply because they can't afford a 993. Sure there are some that subsequently make that move but I personally don't know a lot of people who spend >$20K on something that they don't really want.
I'm glad you're a fan and know you were just playing devil's advocate. Hope you get to enjoy your own 964 some day--trust me, they're worth the money!
Cool? Are you saying your generation feels a four door sedan with large aero wing is cooler than a 911? One's a suped up grocery getter while the other is an iconic sports car.
Sucky performance? Please. Have you been to the track and seen how these 15 year old NA 911's square off with some of the cool cars you mentioned? Outside of the later Z06's and M3's, there aren't many street cars which can keep up.
Bridge to a 993? I may be going out on a limb, here, but I don't think people buy 964's simply because they can't afford a 993. Sure there are some that subsequently make that move but I personally don't know a lot of people who spend >$20K on something that they don't really want.
I'm glad you're a fan and know you were just playing devil's advocate.
Hope you get to enjoy your own 964 some day--trust me, they're worth the money!My SC wasn't spectacular in the performance category. Fun to drive? YES. I loved it. It was fabulous. It was hotter than a two peckered goat down here in south Texas. On the track, well that is different. I can't speak from experience there.
I haven't driven a 964. I've been in a 993. It was pretty awesome. The reason I am drawn to 964s is for the 911 look. Plus, I think it is the first modern(subjective) Porsche. With a G50 and some decent power plus the ability to stay comfortable, it is probably going to be my next car.
11-25-2007, 11:28 PM
#50
Intermediate
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Del Rio, TX
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I want to make one caveat. People still think Porsches are cool. One guy who works for me has a Cayman S and another guy at work bought a 997 last week. I was trying to say that my peers don't seem to be drawn to the older Porsches.
11-25-2007, 11:57 PM
#51
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I think one thing to think about is the potential buyers for the cars. My wild guess is that most of the people on rennlist are not in their 20's.
From my 29 year old opinion, i would say that the 964 has a few great things going for it and some potentially bad things working against it with my generation.
The good: This is a modern car. I've owned an SC and a 914. They suck as cars. No AC, few creature comforts that are just standard on any 10 year old beater car that you could find today. This makes the 964 the entry level car if I were to buy another Porsche today. (which is why I'm reading this board)
The bad: My generation is used to other cars being cool. Ferraris and Porsches sometimes seem unattainable, but really the performance of a 15 year old Porsche sucks compared to a WRX STi or Corvette. Most of the people on this board have probably long since stopped laughing at Lancer Evos and Honda's rev rocket. Once people realize that a 15 year old NA 911 is not that fast, it might lose some of the magic.
Personally, I love Porsches and 911s in particular. The 964 is the last 911 that looks like a 911. It is a great compromise of power and style. However, it is a bridge to the 993. It almost makes the car a niche vehicle.
Just my opinion. I really just want to devalue the car until I buy one.
From my 29 year old opinion, i would say that the 964 has a few great things going for it and some potentially bad things working against it with my generation.
The good: This is a modern car. I've owned an SC and a 914. They suck as cars. No AC, few creature comforts that are just standard on any 10 year old beater car that you could find today. This makes the 964 the entry level car if I were to buy another Porsche today. (which is why I'm reading this board)
The bad: My generation is used to other cars being cool. Ferraris and Porsches sometimes seem unattainable, but really the performance of a 15 year old Porsche sucks compared to a WRX STi or Corvette. Most of the people on this board have probably long since stopped laughing at Lancer Evos and Honda's rev rocket. Once people realize that a 15 year old NA 911 is not that fast, it might lose some of the magic.
Personally, I love Porsches and 911s in particular. The 964 is the last 911 that looks like a 911. It is a great compromise of power and style. However, it is a bridge to the 993. It almost makes the car a niche vehicle.
Just my opinion. I really just want to devalue the car until I buy one.
tongue in cheek.
evo and s2k (i have one) are not COOL, they are fast but not cool.
a prestine or well tracked 964 911 993 is cool.
911's are NOT cars, so of course they suck as cars. they are icons and passion. and as such, other than ferrari's, M1, e30M3 and few others i forget right now, not many comes close.
11-26-2007, 12:01 AM
#52
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Ok point taken.. but there are thousands (literally) of 996/997 coming down in prices that will crush anything older... the first ones to appreciate are the oldest models and this is already happening... just ask how much is a 74 cuda* or a 69' 911
*I'm not sure on the year but you get the point
*I'm not sure on the year but you get the point
ppl who buy 964's are very different than 997 996 buyers.
if you buy the car due to racing class, sure, in another 5 years or so, most 964 are pretty old and the cheaper 996 would probably form a large grip for pca racing (probably is the operative words here).
for street use, no one in their right mind would buy a 964 and tout it as a great daily driver. it's a toy (in a good sense) you have great fun with on weekend. you want to drive around to your local kmart, i take the 996. i have 996's and i love them. this is not to dimish wha they are as cars. but they are not the same as 996's.
for a true daily driver, MOST will prefer 996.
for weekend toy, MOST will prefer 964
for racing, depends on your class.
11-26-2007, 03:13 AM
#53
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Apex, NC
Posts: 2,426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
for a true daily driver, MOST will prefer 996.
I sold my 996 (and boxster) both daily drivers, i should have kept the 996 since it has back seats.
Granted i am a bit different in my willingness to put up with things that the average Subi driver would never dream of. But then again, i generally passed Evo's and Sti's at the track.
You can live with them as daily drivers, granted most will not.
Oh did i say that we imported and ran an Evo VII RS, on the street, great rally cars! Not so much as street cars. The VIII was an improvement in comfort. The US STi is a good DD, but not much fun on tarmac.
To each there own
11-26-2007, 12:26 PM
#54
Three Wheelin'
I dont ever expect to see 964s appreciate in value the way that some of the late 60s muscle cars have.
Baby boomers drove the values of those cars up because they had a special affinity to them. They invoked memories of their youth. However the 964 series of cars were in my youth (Gen x) and we dont represent a significant portion of the population.
I think that the way the population views cars has changed since I was young. There doesnt seem to be very many young people who are interested in older models. Most have almost no mechanical skills. Todays teens and early 20s are from a generation of leasing and replacing vehicles after 3 years.
And that brings me to my final point. For people my age and above, our 964s are the ultimate 911. The last of the cars that look like a 911 should. But I think that for everyone younger than us, they probably just look old fashioned.
Kirk
Baby boomers drove the values of those cars up because they had a special affinity to them. They invoked memories of their youth. However the 964 series of cars were in my youth (Gen x) and we dont represent a significant portion of the population.
I think that the way the population views cars has changed since I was young. There doesnt seem to be very many young people who are interested in older models. Most have almost no mechanical skills. Todays teens and early 20s are from a generation of leasing and replacing vehicles after 3 years.
And that brings me to my final point. For people my age and above, our 964s are the ultimate 911. The last of the cars that look like a 911 should. But I think that for everyone younger than us, they probably just look old fashioned.
Kirk
