Has The 964 Hit The Bottom in Depreciation? - Page 3 - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Notices
964 Forum
Sponsored By:
Sponsored By:

Has The 964 Hit The Bottom in Depreciation?

 
Old 11-21-2007, 08:36 PM
  #31  
JohnMetro
User
 
JohnMetro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 365
Default

Originally Posted by boxsey911 View Post
964s are a bargain for you guys. Over this side of the pond the average price for a good example is ú15,000 (which is well over $30,000 in real money). Since buying mine at the start of the year I've kept a keen eye on our 964 market and there is a definite trend upwards . And as for the RS, it has been steadily rising in price for a few years now with the average price (at the current exchange rate) being close on $100,000.
You think you have it tough... down under, really carappy ones with no history start at $40+AUD, and nice ones are asking $65+AUD (our dollar is nearly on parity with US$, currently about 91 cents). 993's over $90K, RS's double that!
JohnMetro is offline  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:47 PM
  #32  
CanyonBlaster
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
CanyonBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 933
Default Here's one worth watching.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-...QQcmdZViewItem

low miles, rare color combo, and sport seats...
CanyonBlaster is offline  
Old 11-22-2007, 04:14 PM
  #33  
PMB
User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 22
Default

The real issue is the cost of top end or total rebuilds. A decent top end job including clutch etc etc is around $8-10(k)... Most 964's which are driven as seasonal cars are approaching that magic mileage (120-140 miles) so they will need some $$$$$..... (I know some will say you don't need a top end job at 140 miles and will impress us with stunning high mileage examples, but if you want to drive a porsche, maintain it like a porsche) ...
PMB is offline  
Old 11-22-2007, 09:57 PM
  #34  
Seaflat
User
 
Seaflat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina USA
Posts: 119
Default

Originally Posted by PMB View Post
The real issue is the cost of top end or total rebuilds. A decent top end job including clutch etc etc is around $8-10(k)... Most 964's which are driven as seasonal cars are approaching that magic mileage (120-140 miles) so they will need some $$$$$..... (I know some will say you don't need a top end job at 140 miles and will impress us with stunning high mileage examples, but if you want to drive a porsche, maintain it like a porsche) ...
I hope not I just got mine. It has 130K and runs great. When doing my original research, I always thought they were very high mileage cars. I thought high mileage was the norm not the exception. Not looking forward to doing any of that for a while.
Seaflat is offline  
Old 11-23-2007, 07:53 AM
  #35  
Henry964
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Henry964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,061
Default

I paid 42K U$S here for my car and the only other one for sale here in Buenos Aires is a 1993 tiptronic cabriolet at 52k U$S (half the mileage of mine) that would be the price range for a 964 in Argentina
The 993 are really expensive at 65-75k

My car has 150.000 kms (95.000 miles) and I already spended 3.5k dollars in repairs an maintenance (oil, filters, shocks, tyres, brakes, oil leaks)
Henry964 is offline  
Old 11-23-2007, 12:36 PM
  #36  
KirkF
User
 
KirkF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB Canada
Posts: 1,366
Default

The depreciation on my car has been horrific. I bought my 964 when the canadian dollar was at .65, now it is running between 1.00-1.10, and I think that has been the leading factor in the depreciation.

All of the sudden, we have access to a huge market of american cars that can be easily brought across the border at very low prices.

I wish that I wasnt trying to pay my house down right now because I would love to pick up another porsche for the garage.

On the positive side, because my car is worthless I dont feel bad about modifying it.

Kirk
KirkF is offline  
Old 11-24-2007, 10:01 PM
  #37  
PMB
User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 22
Default

Sealflat---they are high mileage machines, the bottom end and many other components will last forever but a top end rebuild is just part of the regular maintenance,, but no panic but start thinking about it at some point....

Kirk....I too am Canadian, I paid 30(k)CDN for mine 3 years ago... I have been thinking about buying my ultimate car which is a 97 993 S4.... the good news is they are becomming affordable
PMB is offline  
Old 11-25-2007, 12:14 AM
  #38  
Oracle
User
 
Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta. CANADA
Posts: 608
Default

So has the 964 hit the bottom of the curve in depreciation and will now start going up?
In my opinion, no, it will continue to go down like any other car that was mass produced.
Don't think about this man... Just enjoy the ride.
Oracle is offline  
Old 11-25-2007, 12:36 AM
  #39  
Larry Herman
F1 Resident Adult
Rennlist Member

Small Business Sponsor

 
Larry Herman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lambertville, NJ
Posts: 10,432
Default

So has the 964 hit the bottom of the curve in depreciation and will now start going up?
Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
In my opinion, no, it will continue to go down like any other car that was mass produced.
Don't think about this man... Just enjoy the ride.
I don't agree. I do not see a really good 964 ever going below $20K. They may not start appreciating yet, but I still feel that they have hit that plateau, and will not drop lower. Just look at Carrera prices, which are not as good performance-wise, cost less originally, more were made, and still command around $15K. They have been at that mark for a few years now.
__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2016 Chevy Volt - Electricity can be fun!
National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car

CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman is offline  
Old 11-25-2007, 01:28 AM
  #40  
Oracle
User
 
Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta. CANADA
Posts: 608
Default

Originally Posted by Larry Herman View Post
I don't agree. I do not see a really good 964 ever going below $20K. They may not start appreciating yet, but I still feel that they have hit that plateau, and will not drop lower. Just look at Carrera prices, which are not as good performance-wise, cost less originally, more were made, and still command around $15K. They have been at that mark for a few years now.
Ok point taken.. but there are thousands (literally) of 996/997 coming down in prices that will crush anything older... the first ones to appreciate are the oldest models and this is already happening... just ask how much is a 74 cuda* or a 69' 911

*I'm not sure on the year but you get the point
Oracle is offline  
Old 11-25-2007, 11:39 AM
  #41  
ADRNLN
User
 
ADRNLN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Connecticut/USA
Posts: 55
Default

When I was looking for my '87, and this was 5 years ago, prices for great G50-based 911s (I wanted the '87-'89 model) were not much lower than the first 964s. Maybe 10%. Point is, many people were willing to pay almost as much as a car a few years newer, because they wanted the simplicity and (I'm guessing?) heritage of the "classic" 911.

This still seems true. Heck, look at the great deals out there on some fairly new - but least-sought after - 996s, yet the earlier cars are still holding their value well. And maybe they have hit a bit of a residual low point in their street value, and are holding steady. But it's also true that every buyer (and seller) has a different price point they assess to the "value" of their car. As we know, the Porsche market - like many collector markets - is much different from typical "Blue Book" type selling.
ADRNLN is offline  
Old 11-25-2007, 12:00 PM
  #42  
ADRNLN
User
 
ADRNLN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Connecticut/USA
Posts: 55
Default

Originally Posted by N51 View Post
Marc,
You're not old enough to remember much.
Post it again a year from now.
35+years of markets. They never change, nor do peoples ignorance of them.
I rely on it.
Like the inflated real estate market we've seen, this can be true. But with cars and collector-type things, not so much. eBay is proof of this. Collectors don't see their hobbies as typical investments, like stocks, real estate, or bonds. There is a passion and insatiable love for our "toys" that transcends all rationale in an otherwise purely dollar-based market.

Years ago, I restored and sold VW Bugs. I have seen these things selling now for 3-5 times what they were worth back then... particularly the ragtops. You can also look at what clean, classic American muscle cars are selling for now: a bloody fortune. Keep your P-car in good shape and don't drive it to the moon and back, and it'll do just fine in the long run. And don't discount the hours of fun you have; surely there's value to that. Consider any "loss" the price of admission.
ADRNLN is offline  
Old 11-25-2007, 01:11 PM
  #43  
N51
Super User
 
N51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: behind the Corn Curtain
Posts: 2,313
Default

Originally Posted by ADRNLN View Post
Like the inflated real estate market we've seen, this can be true. But with cars and collector-type things, not so much. eBay is proof of this. Collectors don't see their hobbies as typical investments, like stocks, real estate, or bonds. There is a passion and insatiable love for our "toys" that transcends all rationale in an otherwise purely dollar-based market.
ADRNLN,

My previous comments were too brief to adequately express the reasoning behind them.

It seems so many believe that because today looks just like yesterday, tomorrow will look like today. I do not hold to that belief.
The '70's were boom time in agriculture. Commodity prices were soaring. Lenders were eager to lend. Land prices went high and higher. Farmers saw their equity grow and borrowed heavily against it. "Everyone" said it was the right thing to do, if one was to maintain a viable presence in the tomorrows to come. What their "tomorrows" brought was inflation and lower commodity prices. Land prices fell over 50%. As businesses failed, those same lenders raised interest rates to hedge against eroding equity. Higher interest rates fueled the downslide in land prices. It was a circle of financial disaster.
That it only affected a fraction of 1% of the populace, it went mostly unnoticed.
While I could be wrong, I see the same story about to be played out in home mortgages. The same common thoughts. Everyone listening to each other and parroting each other, rather than doing their own homework. This time, however, it will affect a much broader segment of citizens.
My beliefs are not widely held. This, of itself, encourages me to believe in them all-the-more. When the majority are of one accord, it's time to look for the exit. There's more than a little truth to the old saying: When the taxicab driver mentions the high price of beans, it's time to sell.
N51 is offline  
Old 11-25-2007, 01:16 PM
  #44  
andrew911
User
 
andrew911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,402
Default

If you have an original low mileage 964, in my opinion it will not drop. As time goes on there are few and fewer....if someone wants a clean original 964 they should be willing to pay extra- the alternative is to "save money" buying one that's a little ratty and high mileage, and dump $$$ into fixing up everything and in the end, if he/she is lucky they will have a nice car that still has high mileage and guess what- cost more when adding the price of the car plus fixing it up.

Personally, I prefer to have my porsche "perfect" and was willing to pay a few thousand extra to get an original car that had 13K miles at the time as opposed to the ones that were a few thousand cheaper with 60-80K miles (this is 5 years ago)

In my opinion, any 964 (or pre-1999 911 for that matter) that is clean and kept in as nice condition as when purchased won't depreciate much more if at all- whether you paid mid $30Ks for it with 20K miles or $20K with 120K miles- keep the car nice and someone will always want it.

Now, what I said about the porsche I did the opposite with my VW- bought it and it needed some work- I own the car with a friend and over the years we fixed it up. We got lucky because the VW convertible market moved up so MAYBE we lost $1-2K or so between all the work vs what it's worth today (maybe $6K), but we weren't doing it for the money and the $2.5K we paid for it 11 years ago was all we wanted to spend on a "toy" at the time as our beer budget would have been otherwise affected. Of course the VW is a toy relative to our 964's which are not toys...that's what I tell my wife anyway

Bottom line, I think the 964 is at the bottom of the deprectation curve and buy the best one you can afford. If you can only spend $20K, keep the car mainted and it's not going to be worth $10K in 2 years (my opinion).

The exception to all this is the highest market cars- the 2.7 RS, long nose, etc- anything that's gone WAY WAY up can fall big as a %. Remember what happened in the late 80's with the high end Ferrari etc market? It can happen again with global recession.
andrew911 is offline  
Old 11-25-2007, 05:23 PM
  #45  
Brother
User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Del Rio, TX
Posts: 47
Default

I think one thing to think about is the potential buyers for the cars. My wild guess is that most of the people on rennlist are not in their 20's.

From my 29 year old opinion, i would say that the 964 has a few great things going for it and some potentially bad things working against it with my generation.

The good: This is a modern car. I've owned an SC and a 914. They suck as cars. No AC, few creature comforts that are just standard on any 10 year old beater car that you could find today. This makes the 964 the entry level car if I were to buy another Porsche today. (which is why I'm reading this board)

The bad: My generation is used to other cars being cool. Ferraris and Porsches sometimes seem unattainable, but really the performance of a 15 year old Porsche sucks compared to a WRX STi or Corvette. Most of the people on this board have probably long since stopped laughing at Lancer Evos and Honda's rev rocket. Once people realize that a 15 year old NA 911 is not that fast, it might lose some of the magic.

Personally, I love Porsches and 911s in particular. The 964 is the last 911 that looks like a 911. It is a great compromise of power and style. However, it is a bridge to the 993. It almost makes the car a niche vehicle.

Just my opinion. I really just want to devalue the car until I buy one.
Brother is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us About Us Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: