Christmas tree in time for the Holidays! With photos.
11-07-2007, 10:34 PM
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Christmas tree in time for the Holidays! With photos.
I have a 92 964 with 120,000 miles. Yesterday I took the car out to go for dinner and it started fine, I drove it about 1 mile and it started to act strange. It started with an occasional buck and Christmas Tree Flash, after 5 miles the car became worse so I parked it and had AAA tow it home. The car will start for about 10 seconds and then shuts off, the idle is very rough.
Recent work to the car that I performed (all in the last 1,000 miles after I purchased the vehicle). The car has about 700 miles of perfect running after the work I performed.
Shocks
Plugs
Valve Adjustment
Oil Change
Distributor Caps and Rotors
Distributor Belt and vent kit
Brake pads
Stainless Steel Brake lines
Flushed the brake and clutch fluids
Car came with minimal records so I do not know what was done in the past, it is a clean car.
Items I checked after the tow home:
Reviewed Adrian’s book and the multiple threads on the Christmas Tree effect on the board
Swapped the DME relay with the spare (it is a new part so I think it is good)
Cleaned the battery terminals
Checked the Distributor belt and verified the Rotors align on the TDC marks
Removed and reconnected the DME and connectors by the AFM to reduce the chance of a connector corrosion problem.
Checked the fault codes:
I got code 15 – Idle Speed contact break
I checked the Idle and Wide open positions per Adrian’s book at the switch and got the correct readings.
I reset the fault codes by holding the accelerator pedal for more than 11 seconds and disconnecting the battery. When I restarted the car and it would run for up to 10 seconds, (same as before) multiple times, I would check the codes again and they stay clear. I do not think the problem is the idle speed control switch. Question: How long does it take to generate a new fault code? Longer than 10 seconds of bad running?
Items I will check tomorrow:
Validate I can hear the fuel pump when the key is turned on.
Swap positions of the coils—this is based on a long thread on the Christmas Tree effect
I never did post pictures of the car when I joined so here are are a couple of photos, it is bone stock except for shocks and lowering springs. Frog eye view courtesy of a Nikon fisheye lens.
Any ideas on other items to check?
Recent work to the car that I performed (all in the last 1,000 miles after I purchased the vehicle). The car has about 700 miles of perfect running after the work I performed.
Shocks
Plugs
Valve Adjustment
Oil Change
Distributor Caps and Rotors
Distributor Belt and vent kit
Brake pads
Stainless Steel Brake lines
Flushed the brake and clutch fluids
Car came with minimal records so I do not know what was done in the past, it is a clean car.
Items I checked after the tow home:
Reviewed Adrian’s book and the multiple threads on the Christmas Tree effect on the board
Swapped the DME relay with the spare (it is a new part so I think it is good)
Cleaned the battery terminals
Checked the Distributor belt and verified the Rotors align on the TDC marks
Removed and reconnected the DME and connectors by the AFM to reduce the chance of a connector corrosion problem.
Checked the fault codes:
I got code 15 – Idle Speed contact break
I checked the Idle and Wide open positions per Adrian’s book at the switch and got the correct readings.
I reset the fault codes by holding the accelerator pedal for more than 11 seconds and disconnecting the battery. When I restarted the car and it would run for up to 10 seconds, (same as before) multiple times, I would check the codes again and they stay clear. I do not think the problem is the idle speed control switch. Question: How long does it take to generate a new fault code? Longer than 10 seconds of bad running?
Items I will check tomorrow:
Validate I can hear the fuel pump when the key is turned on.
Swap positions of the coils—this is based on a long thread on the Christmas Tree effect
I never did post pictures of the car when I joined so here are are a couple of photos, it is bone stock except for shocks and lowering springs. Frog eye view courtesy of a Nikon fisheye lens.
Any ideas on other items to check?
11-07-2007, 11:14 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Ha!
1st, sorry -- but I don't have help for your problem. I'm confident others will, though.
I'm responding because your frogeye picture made me laugh. Love it! Nice fisheye experiment and great backdrop.
Reminds me of the movie, Cars: Mack making faces in the reflection of the tanker.
Whata smile! She's a cutie.
Anyway, best of luck solving your Christmas tree and getting her back on the road, quickly.
-Lonnie
I'm responding because your frogeye picture made me laugh. Love it! Nice fisheye experiment and great backdrop.
Reminds me of the movie, Cars: Mack making faces in the reflection of the tanker.
Whata smile! She's a cutie.Anyway, best of luck solving your Christmas tree and getting her back on the road, quickly.
-Lonnie
11-08-2007, 01:07 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
The Christmas Tree effect , most times from what I have seen and read , equals leaky spark .
How do the coil tops look ?
If you try run it in the dark do you see sparks a jumping ?
If you shut down half the sparks by disconnecting one of the ignition modules at a time , does it get rid of the christmas tree effect .
How do the coil tops look ?
If you try run it in the dark do you see sparks a jumping ?
If you shut down half the sparks by disconnecting one of the ignition modules at a time , does it get rid of the christmas tree effect .
11-08-2007, 09:53 PM
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I went out tonight, pulled one of the coil wires off and attempted to start the car and it fired right up. I let it run for about 10 minutes to recharge the battery, shut it off and reconnected the other coil. It started but the idle was not as smooth. Tomorrow I will purchase 2 new coils and install the new coil wires from the new ignition wire set I purchased several weeks ago.
The only reason I pulled the coil wire was that I read it from somebody else's Christmas Tree post, I would never thought of pulling one of the coil wires. This tip saved me tons of time and trouble shooting work, thank you to all the prior posters!https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bowdown.gif
I checked the car while it was running in the dark and no sign of arcing from the wires. Right after I finished the tune up several weeks ago I noticed one of the plug wires was not connected to the plug correctly and I could hear the TIC sound every time it fired. It took me about 10 minutes to figure which wire was loose. I wonder if this led to the coil problem.
I will post the results after I install the new coils and coil wires.
The only reason I pulled the coil wire was that I read it from somebody else's Christmas Tree post, I would never thought of pulling one of the coil wires. This tip saved me tons of time and trouble shooting work, thank you to all the prior posters!https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bowdown.gif
I checked the car while it was running in the dark and no sign of arcing from the wires. Right after I finished the tune up several weeks ago I noticed one of the plug wires was not connected to the plug correctly and I could hear the TIC sound every time it fired. It took me about 10 minutes to figure which wire was loose. I wonder if this led to the coil problem.
I will post the results after I install the new coils and coil wires.
11-17-2007, 07:58 PM
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Problem resolved! The 2 new coils (Brazil) from Pelican and replacing the coil wires resolved the starting issue. Before the car would rarely start the first time it turned over, always required a second try and now it starts on the first try. The coils we $50 each from Pelican compared to $143 at the local dealerhttps://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/soapbox.gif.
11-17-2007, 11:14 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Sorry I can't help. First thing that came to mind was the DME but sems as though you've got that covered. Congrats on a very nice car though, it looks like a 20k mi queen.