964 vs 993
03-28-2007, 05:21 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by cobalt
Please don't take this the wrong way Mark.
I never quite understood, although used often, when people say the 993 is more evolved and or quicker than a 964. The specs show both cars to be very similar in performance. The reviews I have read show both cars to do 0-60 in mid 5 second range and 1/4 mile between 13.6 and 13.8 seconds. I doubt one can tell the difference between tenths of seconds. Just like my 964 C2 and the 993's I have driven feel quicker than my 928 GTS, but they aren't. The GTS is actually a little quicker than both. I have found the 993 rear suspension takes some of the bounce out of the 964 but handling is on par. Unless you start replacing the 993's rubber bushings with spherical bearings and adjustable drop links a 964 with a PSS9 suspension feels and handles about the same as a 993 with a PSS9 suspension or equivalent upgrade. Yes the brakes are slightly better, but not by much and compounds will make a difference. The only thing I find makes the 993 a different car is the 6 speed tranny and to be honest I like the gearing of the 964 better. Oh yes the 993 also has a better stock stereo, wipers and third brake light and came with the up-sized wheels that were an option on the 964. Although the vario ram cars do seem to add a bit more kick. I will say that most of the 993's I have driven are pre vario ram cars.
To me these cars are like twins, although not identical in external appearance, inside they are made from the same stock with more in common than not.
One thing I have learned about 911's over the years is you can line up 20 911's, all 964's or all 993's and drive one after the other and no 2 will feel or perform completely the same. Although similar they all have a little character of there own. To be honest I think it is the subjective looks of each model that draws us to one model over the other more than anything else.
I never quite understood, although used often, when people say the 993 is more evolved and or quicker than a 964. The specs show both cars to be very similar in performance. The reviews I have read show both cars to do 0-60 in mid 5 second range and 1/4 mile between 13.6 and 13.8 seconds. I doubt one can tell the difference between tenths of seconds. Just like my 964 C2 and the 993's I have driven feel quicker than my 928 GTS, but they aren't. The GTS is actually a little quicker than both. I have found the 993 rear suspension takes some of the bounce out of the 964 but handling is on par. Unless you start replacing the 993's rubber bushings with spherical bearings and adjustable drop links a 964 with a PSS9 suspension feels and handles about the same as a 993 with a PSS9 suspension or equivalent upgrade. Yes the brakes are slightly better, but not by much and compounds will make a difference. The only thing I find makes the 993 a different car is the 6 speed tranny and to be honest I like the gearing of the 964 better. Oh yes the 993 also has a better stock stereo, wipers and third brake light and came with the up-sized wheels that were an option on the 964. Although the vario ram cars do seem to add a bit more kick. I will say that most of the 993's I have driven are pre vario ram cars.
To me these cars are like twins, although not identical in external appearance, inside they are made from the same stock with more in common than not.
One thing I have learned about 911's over the years is you can line up 20 911's, all 964's or all 993's and drive one after the other and no 2 will feel or perform completely the same. Although similar they all have a little character of there own. To be honest I think it is the subjective looks of each model that draws us to one model over the other more than anything else.
However, when you put all of those little things together into one package, in my opinion it adds up to a different "feeling" and in my comparison I call that more "evolved". Or maybe the word I am looking for is refined? I don't know but hopefully you get the point I am trying to make. I just drove both over this past weekend and that is how they came across to me.
No offense taken... actually, it looks to me like we agree
Even if we disagree on details, I think reasonable people can politely disagree... A rare sight on public forums
By the way, I love the Cobalt Blue. Awesome color.
03-28-2007, 06:33 PM
#17
Burgled
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what I always get a good laugh at is to 911 guys the 964 is to updated, to the 964 guys the 993 is to updated and to the 993 guys the 996 is to evolved and to the 944 guys we all suck 
. We are all lucky to be able to have whatever model we have for what ever reason! They all have good and bad points 
. We are all lucky to be able to have whatever model we have for what ever reason! They all have good and bad points
03-29-2007, 12:22 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
few months back, a fellow rennlister needed someone to check a 993 for him here in miami. the dealer was 5 min away from my house, so i decided to check it out and report back to him.
i have owned 4 964s, i do all the work my self, so iam pretty confident i can evaluate a 964 /993 like a pro.
so, early saturday morning, i took at the time my 91 cab (120k miles, no rebuilt, cup chip(ebay), primary/cat bypass, k&N filter, cup 2 wheels), and drove to the dealer.
it was a 96 black coupe, 50k miles, perfect example!!!!!. engine sounded strong, no leaks, smooth clutch, everything worked as it should. so i asked the sales person to take it out for a spin(i challenged the car),the car felt strong, pulled hard and was very confortable. called the rennlister and gave him the green light, he bought it. 2 weeks later after he received it he called me back and thanked me for the wonderful car i helped him buy.
to finish my little story, once i got back into my 964 and the difference was very clear, 993s are overrated.
my old tired turtle, was faster and a monkey would of noticed.
so if you are buying a 993 for the extra power , just buy a good chip/exhaust and suspension and you will have a better car for less. if you like the 993 looks, thats another story.
i have owned 4 964s, i do all the work my self, so iam pretty confident i can evaluate a 964 /993 like a pro.
so, early saturday morning, i took at the time my 91 cab (120k miles, no rebuilt, cup chip(ebay), primary/cat bypass, k&N filter, cup 2 wheels), and drove to the dealer.
it was a 96 black coupe, 50k miles, perfect example!!!!!. engine sounded strong, no leaks, smooth clutch, everything worked as it should. so i asked the sales person to take it out for a spin(i challenged the car),the car felt strong, pulled hard and was very confortable. called the rennlister and gave him the green light, he bought it. 2 weeks later after he received it he called me back and thanked me for the wonderful car i helped him buy.
to finish my little story, once i got back into my 964 and the difference was very clear, 993s are overrated.
my old tired turtle, was faster and a monkey would of noticed.
so if you are buying a 993 for the extra power , just buy a good chip/exhaust and suspension and you will have a better car for less. if you like the 993 looks, thats another story.
03-29-2007, 07:36 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by Heirsh
One thing I think everyone agrees on is the rear of the 993 is amazing.
(Ok, not that bad, but I don't like the rear of the 993 and even worse: the 993 S)
03-29-2007, 08:20 AM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by CraigyB
For eg, I like the 993 targa more than the 964 targa, and also (sorry steve) prefer the looks of the 993 tt to the 964 turbo.
Then again i have to admit if a Riviera Blue 993 TT came on the market i'd need to empty the other half of the garage out to make space
Its all a case of different toys for different days in my opinion. Can we all not agree that it should be each to his own
03-29-2007, 08:55 AM
#23
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LOL - I thought that would grab some attention !
Ok to put it in perspective, it's like saying I prefer Salma Hayek to Drew Barrymore....... And there are probably some parallels there in terms of temperament !
Ok to put it in perspective, it's like saying I prefer Salma Hayek to Drew Barrymore....... And there are probably some parallels there in terms of temperament !
03-29-2007, 12:02 PM
#24
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Since no one has yet come to the defense of 964 Targas, I'll ask that you not disparage the 964 Targa unless you have driven one on a pleasant Spring day (as we are having here in Atlanta) with the top off and the windows down. That experience cannot be duplicated with the 993's large sun roof (a Targa? HA!). I drove both, and my purchase speaks for itself. Also, the 964 is the last of the clasasic Targas, a look I fell in love with when they first came out, and which I have continued to love to this today. So there!
03-29-2007, 12:16 PM
#25
Burgled
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Originally Posted by MadHungarian
Since no one has yet come to the defense of 964 Targas, I'll ask that you not disparage the 964 Targa unless you have driven one on a pleasant Spring day (as we are having here in Atlanta) with the top off and the windows down. That experience cannot be duplicated with the 993's large sun roof (a Targa? HA!). I drove both, and my purchase speaks for itself. Also, the 964 is the last of the clasasic Targas, a look I fell in love with when they first came out, and which I have continued to love to this today. So there!
You drive a TIP 
03-29-2007, 12:21 PM
#26
Originally Posted by MadHungarian
Since no one has yet come to the defense of 964 Targas, I'll ask that you not disparage the 964 Targa unless you have driven one on a pleasant Spring day (as we are having here in Atlanta) with the top off and the windows down. That experience cannot be duplicated with the 993's large sun roof (a Targa? HA!). I drove both, and my purchase speaks for itself. Also, the 964 is the last of the clasasic Targas, a look I fell in love with when they first came out, and which I have continued to love to this today. So there!
03-29-2007, 11:29 PM
#28
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Thanks for all your responses, I had not driven a 993 before this and needed some info from someone familiar with both. I wasn't trying to start a debate over which one is best....the one you have is always the best.
Jimq, I've been around, just busy right now. I'd like to go to Heathrow with you one weekend. Let me know.
TRINTONY, Thanks, I pm'd Pedro about his '95 Cab..
MarkD, Thanks for your help, I also think the 993 I drove had issues. It had 25k miles and the guy wanted $40k. It was supposed to be pristine, it would have taken about $5k for the cosmetics plus whatever else if it had mechanical problems. He came down to $36,800 three days later, but I had decided it was not the car for me.
I did like the way it rode, but it was definately suggish compared to my stock 964. I agree they are 2 different cars, I just didn't expect a drop in acceleration. 35 more horses and 6 speed gearing should have impressed me, but didn't.
Jimq, I've been around, just busy right now. I'd like to go to Heathrow with you one weekend. Let me know.
TRINTONY, Thanks, I pm'd Pedro about his '95 Cab..
MarkD, Thanks for your help, I also think the 993 I drove had issues. It had 25k miles and the guy wanted $40k. It was supposed to be pristine, it would have taken about $5k for the cosmetics plus whatever else if it had mechanical problems. He came down to $36,800 three days later, but I had decided it was not the car for me.
I did like the way it rode, but it was definately suggish compared to my stock 964. I agree they are 2 different cars, I just didn't expect a drop in acceleration. 35 more horses and 6 speed gearing should have impressed me, but didn't.
