rhyd911

Hi,
This question is really directed at the US contingent. I have read the other thread in this forum, but I thought it's been a year since and worth re-opening the topic.

Here in Aus, they are talking more and more about moving to a 10% blend of ethanol with fuel. Since we didn't have this in the UK, I'm not really up on the details of whether this is a good or a bad thing (Please remove greenie caps before answering) for our cars.
My basic chemistry reminds me that Ethanol is a hygroscopic substance and I know from bitter experience that water in the fuel is extraordinarily bad. I once had to replace a fair few expensive components on the K-Jet Injection system on my old SC due to rust. I have also read that it can damage rubber fuel lines over time depending on the rubber compound.

So my questions are thus;

Have there been any studies into long term 10% blend usage specifically with the 3.6 engine and standard fuel injection system.

Has anyone had any fuel system problems that could be attributed to component incompatibility with the fuel blend?

Australian standard unleaded is 91RON, I always use the Premium 95RON (as directed by my fuel flap ). What is the octane rating for the 10% blend or are there varying levels as there are now? Will I have to have my timing changed?

Would I notice any performance difference between a tank of premium and a tank of Ethanol blend?

I read that Brazil leads the world with Ethanol fuel usage at something like a 20% blend. I read somewhere that anything up to 17% is ok for most cars and above that component deterioration increases exponentially. Surely this is the way every country will go eventually?

TIA,
R.

C4Russ

From what I've read, ethanol is a zero sum solution. There are substantial production and transportation costs associated with using agriculture based fuels. Some studies indicate that once the final costs of producing and transporting the corn along with the reduced fuel economy/power output, that we are putting more pollutants into the air.

It's important to realize that ethanol came about during a time when farm subsidies to farmers where vital to the US economy, we were looking for anything to give farming a boost. It wasn't done only because it was possible alternative.

etom

Off-topic--- Maybe we should all go pure electric and get 0-60 performance in four seconds with no emissions:

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

[Anyone see "Who Killed the Electric Car?" Somewhat sentimental, and not very probing, but the point is that there was an electric car around that did work--and the designers did manage to get the drag factor on the EV1 right: drag coefficient of only 0.19. What is the 964s?]

Danz C4

Porsche 964 CD 0.32

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911

Danz C4

etom

So the drag on the 964 is 0.32. Anybody got some good comparisons? I think the new Vette's ranges from .28-.34.

Danz C4

Just about everything is here up thru about 1996: http://www.mayfco.com/tbls.htm

Looks like the Corvettes run between 0.33-0.36:

'68 Corvette L88
0.360

'90 Corvette
0.340

'92 Corvette LT1
0.330

'93 Corvette LT1
0.330

'92 Corvette LT1 Automatic
0.330

'93 Corvette LT1 Automatic
0.330

'91 Corvette ZR-1
0.340

'93 Corvette ZR-1
0.340



Amazing what a Google.com search will turn up...

Danz C4

etom

Nice googling. It looks like the EV1 must takes the award, if you can award it to a dead car.....

Chris M.

I've read the same but haven't been able to decide if I believe it or if I think it's just Big Oil propaganda...

C4Russ

I feel the same. The problem with reading studies is that someone paid for the study. The problem with reading a journalist is that journalism died some time before Woodard.

springer3

It was not the farmers that pushed ethanol. It was the agri-business conglomerate Archer-Daniels-Midland that did the heavy lifting on the lobbying. ADM was/is a bunch of crooks who eventually got caught. There has not been much noise about ethanol in national US politics since.

I like what John McCain said about ethanol when he got questioned about it at the Iowa primary debates in 1990: "Ethanol is bad technology and bad politics, and I am against it". Then George Bush said he was in favor of anything that gave the US energy independence. Bush was playing politics or was clueless. He won the primary, and the rest is history.

Economics aside, a problem with any crop-to-fuel plan is that if hunger breaks out anywhere in the world, there will be moral hand wringing about using agricultural land for fuel production.

GothingNC

I've heard a few stories of Ethanol contaminating the water supply for leaking tanks and spills.

Probably not as bad as MTBE.

http://www.energyjustice.net/ethanol/factsheet.html

I prefer the electric or biodiesel route.


John

N51

ADM is the easy and safe target. Ever heard of these folks? http://www.fb.org/index.php?fuseaction=about.home
There are four planned and under construction ethanol plants within 30-40 miles of my farm. All owned by small business men and/or farm co-ops. Same all throughout the midwest.

So GW, who was elected to his first term in 2000, is responsible for current ethanol policies?

If hunger breaks out? Where's the moral hand wringing you predict? The time has already come and gone. What will change the future that has not changed the past and present?

To move your well-intentioned rhetoric to some real understanding of the current issues, please google "Tad Patzek".

Noah

Indycam

http://www.indy500.com/news/story.php?story_id=4105

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2005/0...et-050315.html

I hope to one day pull up to a pump and fill my cars tank with 100% Ethanol .
Batteries weight is to much .
Diesel is cool . Hope to convert the vanagon someday to a turbo diesel .

The problem with the Tesla isn't that someone killed it , it cost way to much .

Indycam

"Ethanol is bad technology and bad politics, and I am against it".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

springer3

Clearly there is a diversity of opinion on the subject. I did not mean to offend. To clarify, Ethanol has a place in the energy mix, but the 964 is not designed for it. Growing corn on crop land to make it is not the right way to go.