BMWDavid

I'm new to the Porsche world. I've been looking at the classifieds and studying all I can about these cars.

Question: I thought I had narrowed down my choices to the '87-'88 range 3.2 cars. However I see that there is quite a lot of value in the early 964's.

Are the 964's any more problem prone than the 3.2's? I would be looking at the C2's not C4's. So the AWD system is of no concern to me. I'd like to hear from anyone who has experience or knowledge of both. I do like the looks of the 3.2 cars but the 964 has grown on me a bit.

Thanks!

David

1990-964

David,
I was in a similar place as you in 2003. Was convinced that an 87-89 3.2 Carrera was the car to own. Due to the long process of finding a good car I began to learn more about the 964. Though the early 964 models had some problems both minor and major, they have developed a reputation with some that may not be fully justified. To help put your mind at ease almost any of the affected cars have by now been fixed. Also 3.2 Carreras can also suffer from some problems. You MUST do the research to make an informed decision. Now as to my decision to buy a 964, I could not be happier. It is a far better drive especially if it is an everyday car. A good bit faster too, but the 87-89 cars seem to be in greater demand and consequently are worth more in many cases. Best of luck. Remember, Research, Research, and more Research. Learn all that you can to help avoid getting into trouble.

N51

Great post! Nothing left to be said.

Noah

DustinTarditi

The 3.2 Carreras are highly regarded and priced accordingly.
They are, indeed, solid cars - however, they do have the older gen technology and share a lot with the 911SC era of cars.

The 964 suffers the slings and arrows of those who have not taken the time to understand the car and the company at the time. They were VERY advanced for their time, and not 100% perfect in design, but are also very robust and fun to drive and own. Learn the ideosynchrasies of the model (actually of ANY model you end up with - they all have their nits) and just deal with them.

Bottom line - the 3.2 Carrera is the pinnacle of the "impact bumper" 911. The 964 has a very distinct profile though - people either love it or hate it. The 993 did away with the endearing headlight/fender line, but some find that to be dated anyway.

I have several PCA friends with the 3.2 Carerras - they love their cars and swear up and down about how great they are. In the summer, though, I can turn on the AC and not sweat (they cannot, at least not without extensive replacement of HVAC parts) and in the winter I can't turn on the heat full blast or I will sweat. The HVAC isn't as good as the 993, which isn't as good as the 996, but it's way better than the older 911s. The 964 has a good amount of power and can be improved with some not too expensive mods - the newer the model the less room for improvement though. My buddy just spent $3000 to get a 15hp increase in his 996, for instance. My 964 cruises comfortably around town at droll speeds, and is very composed at ludicrous speed. It's simply a great car, IMHO. On trips with other p-car owners, I'm keeping up with the 996es (C4Ses, too) and they always remark how well the car performs for something 17 years old.

My first Porsche was a "mid-year" with the "dreaded" 2.7L engine. The engine was fine (I got a PPI) and the car was wonderful... light, quick, sporty... it was just not suited for me to have as a daily driver, so I got something newer with a few more bells and whistles - the 964 was perfect for me (I was looking for a 993 but couldn't find one in my budget that wasn't ratted out). I have been thinking of the 996 lately, but I really love the air-cooled sound and I'm going to have this car for a few years yet, so no sense worrying about it.

As was stated before, do your homework - get a pre-purchase inspection, and I believe in the old edict - "buy the newest best condition Porsche you can afford."

Best of luck - we're here if you have questions, and I've never found this fun group to be lacking with advice or opinions. :-)

Gary R.

David -

All good advice given already, i'll just add one thing. Regardless of what car you are considering, figure out the maximum amount of money you will have available to dedicate to the car over the first year of ownership. If you can come up with $25K for the car then I would look for the best car out there for $20K and keep $5K in reserve for anything that might pop up.. Best case scenario is you have money for little mods, worst case you can fix a lot for $5K..

Jay H

I've got an '84 3.2 Carrera and a 1990 964 C2. Both are fun cars to drive.

I prefer the '84 to drive since it's more raw and a more simple car. I take the '84 to work, run errands with it, pack it full of groceries, pick up the kids, etc. A great 'toy' car was well for that sunny weekend type driving.

The 964 is much quicker in all aspects, but is more refined and buttoned down in feel. All the 911 cues, sounds and feel are present, it just takes more to extract them. However, the ventilation system is far superior to the 3.2 and ABS and such is probably nice to have for a daily driver type car.

If I had to pick one for a car for 365 days a year, it would be the 964. If I had to have one for just fun driving, it would be the 3.2 Carrera.

The 964 will cost more to maintain than a compareable 3.2. The 964 is much more complex, so more complexity typically equals more maintenance and repairs.

Some examples of increased maintenance on the 964: Plug changes involve removing portions of the exhaust to change the lower 6 plugs. The dual distributor belt should be changed every 5-7years or 50,000 miles to be on the safe side. There are twin "fan" belts (one for alternator, one for fan) that need to be changed (admiittedly not a real major expense for one more belt!). Oil changes are the same as the previous cars (one filter, 10-11 quarts of oil).

There are more electrical systems that can cause idiot lights to come on and then the need to diagnose the problem that goes with it. Others have mentioned the other problems that can occur with a 964, so I won't rehash the uncommon cylinder to head leak and DMF issues.

I'm not discouraging you in any way from seeking out a 964. They are very robust cars and perform very well. I just want to you to be aware that they cost just a bit more to run than a compareable 3.2. They payoff is that they perform to a higher level. It costs money to go faster!

Good Luck!

Jay
90 964, 84 3.2

Mike Murphy

The 964 is what many enthusiasts claim to be the real second-generation 911. The car was 87% new from the 3.2 Carrera. Aside from the obvious distinctive visual differences, such as bumpers and driving lights, and new alloy wheels, the biggest influence change was the retractable rear spoiler - it goes up at 50mph and retracts at 6mph. The real bid advantage was the C4, the new 4-wheel-drive system. The 964 is quicker than the 3.2, since it has a 3.6 liter engine instead of 3.2. This gave the car more power and torque. Also, the 964 transmission is a stronger version of the 3.2, and features a taller fifth gear, which allows top speed to be increased to 164 from 152. The 964 has completely new brakes from the 3.2 model, with more proper ventilation than the 3.2.

The 964 weighs quite a bit more than the 3.2, which is one big drawback. The added power helps, but the car feel a bit different, a bit less raw, than the 3.2. If this is going to be a daily driver, I would spring for the 964 to get the newest components and better AC, and I would go for the C4. If this is going to be a weekend car, I think you'll appreciate the 3.2 a slightly bit more.

But test drive them both for yourself!

Mike Murphy

Jay, I forgot to mention airbags. Does the 964 have one?

jimq

90 on do

Jay H

Driver and passenger side airbags were standard on US models from 1990 and forward. The 1989 C4's did not have air bags and used the steering wheel from the previous 3.2 Carrera.

Jay H

Co efficient of drag was reduced quite a bit on the 964's from the 3.2's. I believe the 964 boasted a Cd of .31 where as the outgoing 3.2's were at ~ .39 (I can't remember all of these numbers all the time!).

Even the 993 had just a slighty higher Cd of .32! Again, not deal breaking or earth shattering specs, but just some triva to prove that Porsche really went to work on the 964 to update the 911 lineup.

Check out an interior pic from an '86-'87 959 sometime. You'll notice that the 959 was a 'sneak peak' at the 964 that was to come a few years later, especially the center console setup. AWD design and execution for the 964 was based somewhat on the 959 setup (though more simple than the 959).

David K.

0.4

Jay H

Rounding error on my part!!!

DustinTarditi

One other note (on the plus column for the C4) - throw on a pair of all season tires and it'll outperform quatro Audis in bad weather!

JasonAndreas

The HVAC (compressor, evaporator, condensor, dessicator, etc.) in a 993 is exactly the same as the one found in a 964 so if you notice yours operating differently consider having it serviced.