As 964 owners, I need your input...

I'm planning to purchase either a 964 or a 993 - manual trans. coupe in either case. Now without considering looks, as they are subjective, tell me why should I pick a 964 over a 993 (or not, if that's the case)?

Considerations:

- fun to drive factor (handling, power, feedback, etc.)
- maintenance costs
- likelihood of major expense down the line
- value for money right now
- appreciation - will it go up any further in value or has the market levelled?
- anything else you can think of

I've posted the same question (in reverse) in the 993 zone - it's not a cross-post so please don't mark it as such. Thank you.

 

1. nearly the same power as a 993. A bit less then a varioum
2. about the same. No CELL for clogged SAI
3. same chance on either. Maybe more with the CELL issue on 993 and valve guides on both
4. 964 better value in my mind. Subjective of course. I think 993 especially on Rennlist are over
valued.
5. market seems to be level for the last couple of years. Neither is an investment and both getting old with higher miles.
6. I like the clasic look of the front of the 964 and the butt of the 993. To me it wasnt worth the extra 10-15K to get a 993 for a weekend toy.

 

My vote is on 964 due to non OBD-II and the current premium on 993 is hard to justify in my opinion.

 

I get to reply in both forums.

Both are fun to drive. I don't think there is a significant difference in the fun factor between them. I've had my 993 for over 4 years and my 964 for over 3 years and put a few miles on them (on and off the track).

I think the costs should be similar but the 964 may be a bit more as it's older and will have more issues with things wearing out (given similar mileage and proper maintenance from the PO). I've had more issues with replacing rubber parts on my 964 than 993. Likely hood of a moajor expeanse should be very similar between them (again, given proper maintenace for either).

964s are cheaper, but 993s are a lot cheaper now than they used to be. Neither will appreaciate, it's simply a question of additional depreciation rates.

I'd buy a 993 because I like the looks better. (But I bought the 964 because it was cheaper.)

A '95 993 is OBD I, not OBD II (and will not have CEL issues due to clogged SAI ports)

 

Later 993s have a noticable increase in power over the 964... earlier 993s not as much.
Interiors are nearly identical.

I think you get a better value (at current point in time) with a 964, as the 993 still has a bit of a halo effect around the model. You can get a decent 964 coupe for around $20 all day long... a comparable 993 (condition/miles) will easily cost $10K - $15K more... you can actually find 996es for less money than comparable condition 993s.

Later 993s have OBDII as well - a little easier to diagnose.

 

My choice this past summer was between a 993 coupe or a 964 RS America for roughly the same money. I ended up going with the RSA for the following reasons:

1) I don't think the 993's have bottomed out in value yet. Probably still some depreciation left to go. Maybe the 964's will decline a little more too, but probably not as much as a ratio of their current price.
2) Since I was looking at an RSA specifically for my 964 choice, I opted to go with the RSA because it is much more unique and rare (in terms of production numbers) than a standard production 993 coupe. Therefore, my logic was that the RSA will be worth more 10+ years from now than, say, a 1995 993 coupe.

Having said that, it was still tough for me and I would still love to have a 993. Its all subjective as you noted, but I think the 993 tail is much prettier and I even like the 993 nose (although it is not the "classic" 911 front end). Also, being the last of the air cooled 911's, the 993 may be worth something in terms of long term collectibility, but those things are so hard to predict (remember the people who bought the 1976 Cadillac ElDorado convertibles for high premium prices because they were the last convertibles?).

And of course, the 993 has a little more power (about 25 more HP) than the 964. For me, if I were going for a 993, I'd want the S model 2wd coupe (given that I could never afford the turbo). A 1997 or 98 model.

 

I have owned a 1989 3.2 Carrera, a 1992 C2 and now a 1989 C4. I have not owned or driven a 993 but have looked at a lot of them and have spoken with owners. I have also followed them or passed them at DE events on race tracks. That said, here is my opinion, and only my opinion:

They are both very expensive to own and maintain. Do not buy one unless you are prepared to spend $2500 to $5000 every now and again on major repairs or to fix leaks. They are also very reliable when maintained properly.

I like the looks of the 964 much better than the 993. Most other people feel the opposite and the 964 is considered a bit of an ugly duckling. I love the old profile of the 964 combined with the streamlined bumpers. Sadly, all this plastic can look pretty nasty on a beat-up 964 and is very expensive to replace.

As for driving, the 964 is great. You get the feel and sound of the 3.2 Carrera, but with power steering, real AC that works, and a nice feeling shifter. To me it is a bit more refined than a 3.2 Carerra but still a "real" Porsche.

Cost-wise, you can get a very nice 964 for the price of a ratty 993. You do not want to buy a ratty 993 or 964 as the repairs costs are too high. I would get a ratty SC or 3.2 Carrera if necessary as it is cheaper to fix, and it has less exterior and interior plastic to replace. The 964's pretty much all leak oil for one reason or another. Many have been repaired already, but some have not been. I do not know if 993's leak, but I bet many will when they hit 10 to 12 years old.

The 993 is supposed to drive better than a 964. The rear suspension has been re- worked, and the engine is more powerful. If you like the looks and can afford to buy and maintain a nice one, then get it. If not, try the 964.

None of these car will appreciate. The only cars that appreciate are very expensive collectors cars that you would not drive; that would be horrible to have a beautiful car in your garage that you could not drive.

Value for the money; poor if you are only considering performance. My Subaru Legacy will easily keep up with my 964. I am sure that a WRX would stay with a 993 on a track. If you can afford to own a Porsche and drive it, and you enjoy every second while in the car, then it is a good value. The experience of driving these cars on a nice day or attending a Porsche Club DE track event is awsome. However, if this were my only car and I had to drive it every day in traffic, on rough roads, in the winter or in extreme heat, I would NOT choose an older Porsche. If you have a regular car to commute in, or if you live in a nice climate with smooth roads and no traffic, you will be fine.

I love my 964 and would not want anything else. I only replaced my last 964 because I crashed it on a track. Compared to a Boxster or a water cooled 911, you are getting a hand built car with all of it's pros and cons. It feels like a brick Sh_t house. Solid as hell. Yet it rattles like a Yugo. A Boxter or 996 is lighter feeling in the build, yet actually put together well and less likely to rattle.

The radios in these old Porsche suck and there is nothing that you can do to really fix that without building speaker boxes and adding amps to the front trunk area. I would avoid that because the cars are so looud anyhow and you will need the luggage space more than a good stereo.

Good luck with your purchase.

 

Just as a contrast. I drive a 91 with 114K on the clock. I drive it most every day, year round in the northwest with summer heat and winter snows. I take it across the state without a trace of doubt.

 

I live in WA also and drive year round with 135k on mine. Haven't had any problems yet and it is my daily driver. I put about 80 miles a day on it monday-friday

 

Since nobody has said it yet - I say go for the better deal. You haven't been "evangelized" into one or the other yet - and if it's your first p-car the differences between them aren't going to be so extreme you'll regret either. Just get the one that you "like" best, is in the best condition, has the best history, checks out best on PPI, and is priced right. It's hard enough to find one (964 or 993) that hits all the high notes, so why not increase the pool of potential candidates?

 

Hello Russ,

With all due respect, Spokane does not have summer heat nor winter cold / snow. Detroit or Chicago has 95F with 90% humidty for 3 months and also 4 months below freezing with slush and snow the whole time. You guys get a few 100 degree desert style dry days and a few frosts seperated by near perfect moderate weather. Your roads are basically smooth, and there is NO TRAFFIC.

BTW, it is beautiful there, I just bought a 964 in Seattle and drove it back to Detroit. I stopped in at the new Porsche Dealer in Idaho on Saturday to try to buy some winter tires, and they could not help me. I saw a meet of about 25 cars but did not have time to stick around and talk. I was stuck at Altons for 4 hours while they mounted some winter tires. Be careful there; they screwed up my jacking point on the front of the car since they did not know what they were doing even after I warned them. Anyhow, very nice town, nice weather, you are lucky and I would pobably use a C4 for my everyday car if I lived there as well. But in Detroit, forget about it. I have 12" deep ruts of rock hard frozen slush to deal with. The 993 or 964 is NOT suitable for the type of torture. Even if the car survives, you will be miserable. Not good for any Porsche.

-Doug

 

Obviously a 964 - because the 964 board is a much friendlier place than that 'other' place!!!

 

I have both a 993 C2S and a 964 Cup Car, and like them both for their intended purposes. The C2S is for sale, as the 964 is my interest now. They are both great Porsches, and I have owned many 911s since 1969, when I bought a 1968 911L.

Buy the best/newest car you can afford.

 

That isn't the Spokane I remember, having lived in Washington State for 15 years. While nothing is as bad as the humidity of Chicago and Detroit, it sounds like you are talking about the summers and winters in Seattle, not Spokane.

 

Doug, you were doing pretty good until you got to this. I have a WRX, and one of my sons had a much faster Lancer EVO 8. As well as he could drive it, which was pretty good, he got dusted by well setup, stock motored 993s. He just sold it and bought a 993. And a C2 can be made to go just as fast as a 993 without breaking the bank. Personally, unless you are going to buy a low production car like an RSA for it's resale value, you really can't go wrong with either car.