SUCCESS!!! Diagnostic Interface... And Codes!
10-12-2006 | 10:29 AM
#46
Racer
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 464
Likes: 4
From: Midland Tx
Rick,
Great summary post! Im electronically challenged to say the least, but with your summary post I think I can get this to work.
Many thanks to all of those who obviously spent hours and hours doing the research and putting this together for the benefit of a bunch of Porsche enthusiasts.
Great summary post! Im electronically challenged to say the least, but with your summary post I think I can get this to work.
Many thanks to all of those who obviously spent hours and hours doing the research and putting this together for the benefit of a bunch of Porsche enthusiasts.
10-14-2006 | 03:17 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,770
Likes: 105
From: The 909, CA
Originally Posted by Smokin
I cannot stress enough that you must be careful when hooking this up. I'd hate to think what may happen if there is a wire crossed and then voltage applied. Just read all the threads and take it slow and everything should work well.
Edit: Also discovered I blew the central locking and alarm fuse as well. I guess I'll go thru and test all fuses. Next step - build a custom plug to prevent this in the future.
Last edited by 911Urge; 10-15-2006 at 01:18 AM.
10-14-2006 | 10:15 AM
#48
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 3
From: Pasadena, MD - Land of Taxes
OUCH! This is why I worry about hooking it up and driving down the road. Just in case one falls out and hits something. I fit my pins very carefully when I made them. I inherited a bunch of stuff when my Dad died years ago. A lot of electronics and electronic parts. I had a drawer full of pins that obviously were silver plated. (They actually look to be solid silver by the way they tarnish... But I have a hard time believing they make solid silver pins) Anyway... They were just a hair too big so I put them in my little metal lathe and turned them to the correct size. They fit so well... I'm not sure I could incorporate them into a plug.
I tried it out again last night after a long run from Northern VA. Same two codes. I played around with different settings on the climate control but could not force it to come up with all the original codes it kicked out... Just the motor sensor.
I tried it out again last night after a long run from Northern VA. Same two codes. I played around with different settings on the climate control but could not force it to come up with all the original codes it kicked out... Just the motor sensor.
10-16-2006 | 03:19 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,770
Likes: 105
From: The 909, CA
After my embarrassing fuse blowing episode I did get my interface (cowtown's 993 PCB) to connect. No error codes seen in Motronic or ABS/Traction Control. Airbags not installed in my 89 C4. I did get 2 error codes under Climate Control -
21 - Oil Cooler Temp Sensor
42 - Oil Cooler Blower Motor
Car does seem to warm up to about 9 - 10 o'clock position during longer periods of idle but drops right down to first mark around the 8 o'clock position. Ill go run that down on the relay, sensor and motor front just to be sure.
What was interesting to note was my Actaul Values at 880rpm (idle) and how they differed from Smokin's. Smokin's values are in parenthesis ()
Actual Values
AFM Voltage = 1.50v (1.33v)
Injector time = 3.35 ms (3.00 ms)
Ignition Advance = 0.8 deg (4.0 deg)
Input Values
O2 Sensor = 137 (19)
MAP Sensor = 5 (4)
I noticed Smokin's signature he listed his engine as Andial prepped with Andial Chip. My engine was not Andial prepped but I do have the Andial 964 Sport exhaust and a Andial Chip to coincide with the exhaust. I spoke with Arnold back in April about the chip and he did not have the exact mapping of the chip available. Is there any further information on these and other values displayed in scantool4? Also might be cool to start gathering data on factory vs chipped cars to see the differences. I also captured Actual & Input values at idle, 1000, 2000 and 3000 rpm's.
I think a great enhancement to Scantool would be the ability to output these values to a CSV log file every 5 - 30 sec (or user selectable) then drop into Excel for plotting.
21 - Oil Cooler Temp Sensor
42 - Oil Cooler Blower Motor
Car does seem to warm up to about 9 - 10 o'clock position during longer periods of idle but drops right down to first mark around the 8 o'clock position. Ill go run that down on the relay, sensor and motor front just to be sure.
What was interesting to note was my Actaul Values at 880rpm (idle) and how they differed from Smokin's. Smokin's values are in parenthesis ()
Actual Values
AFM Voltage = 1.50v (1.33v)
Injector time = 3.35 ms (3.00 ms)
Ignition Advance = 0.8 deg (4.0 deg)
Input Values
O2 Sensor = 137 (19)
MAP Sensor = 5 (4)
I noticed Smokin's signature he listed his engine as Andial prepped with Andial Chip. My engine was not Andial prepped but I do have the Andial 964 Sport exhaust and a Andial Chip to coincide with the exhaust. I spoke with Arnold back in April about the chip and he did not have the exact mapping of the chip available. Is there any further information on these and other values displayed in scantool4? Also might be cool to start gathering data on factory vs chipped cars to see the differences. I also captured Actual & Input values at idle, 1000, 2000 and 3000 rpm's.
I think a great enhancement to Scantool would be the ability to output these values to a CSV log file every 5 - 30 sec (or user selectable) then drop into Excel for plotting.
10-16-2006 | 10:09 AM
#50
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 3
From: Pasadena, MD - Land of Taxes
Stephen... Excellent idea!
I know that these values obviously change with temperature and RPM/speed. I posted two sets of numbers... (Hot/cold) I have also since run scantool4 again (several times). I haven't had the time to copy and compare my original numbers to what I have now. When I posted originally my idle was surging a little... prior to doing the idle adaptation. I have seen similar reading as yours on mine at times. (With the exception of your ignition timing... I don't think I've seen mine that low.)
I no longer have the Andial chip installed in my Porsche... BTW... Jason Andreas sent me a custom chip that he programmed to address my lightweight flywheel / stalling issue and so far... His chip is working very well. There are still a few items that need to be addressed, mainly on my part. (I need to track down my Hall Sensor code!) The new chip in conjunction with the idle adaptation feature has helped me greatly! It is now very difficult to make the car stall!
I haven't had the time to build my other PCB yet. I need to get it finished and compare values between the two.
It would be great if someone could write a user's manual for the interface. There are several things that I am unsure about. The main reason I wanted one was to read codes. But after seeing all the info it gives... I'd like to know a little more about it.
I know that these values obviously change with temperature and RPM/speed. I posted two sets of numbers... (Hot/cold) I have also since run scantool4 again (several times). I haven't had the time to copy and compare my original numbers to what I have now. When I posted originally my idle was surging a little... prior to doing the idle adaptation. I have seen similar reading as yours on mine at times. (With the exception of your ignition timing... I don't think I've seen mine that low.)
I no longer have the Andial chip installed in my Porsche... BTW... Jason Andreas sent me a custom chip that he programmed to address my lightweight flywheel / stalling issue and so far... His chip is working very well. There are still a few items that need to be addressed, mainly on my part. (I need to track down my Hall Sensor code!) The new chip in conjunction with the idle adaptation feature has helped me greatly! It is now very difficult to make the car stall!
I haven't had the time to build my other PCB yet. I need to get it finished and compare values between the two.
It would be great if someone could write a user's manual for the interface. There are several things that I am unsure about. The main reason I wanted one was to read codes. But after seeing all the info it gives... I'd like to know a little more about it.
10-16-2006 | 01:46 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,770
Likes: 105
From: The 909, CA
Originally Posted by Wachuko
Jimq was kind enough to lend me his... so I will be doing some testing today to see what shows up.
I have a curiosity with the values I posted earlier. Specifically the AFM voltage, advance and O2 sensor. I have a suspision those with standard/stock air boxes vs K&N cone filter systems will display differences in the AFM voltage.
10-16-2006 | 02:32 PM
#53
Burgled
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 22,383
Likes: 15
From: Altamonte Springs, Fl/Gwynns Island, Va.
We saved Fred's964 hot outputs on friday. If he doesn't post them I will tonight when I get home. Rick why dont you start a thread just for readouts of scantool4. I will do mine after Jaime is done with the tester. (no hurry Jaime 
)
I dont know if there would be a difference but maybe we should say TIP, Manual, Chiped ets.
)I dont know if there would be a difference but maybe we should say TIP, Manual, Chiped ets.
Last edited by jimq; 10-16-2006 at 03:08 PM.
10-16-2006 | 02:58 PM
#54
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 3
From: Pasadena, MD - Land of Taxes
Jim... Good idea! 
I will start the thread tomorrow with readings of my own. I will post the original readings as well as new ones that I will pull tomorrow. I like the idea of a cold reading first and then posting hot readings at idle and then at different RPMs. If anyone has any other suggestions... Please post them!
I also plan on working on my other PCB to get it working. (Tomorrow if I can!) If I can get it working I'll fab up a cable (I have what I need for that) and we can make that one the "Rennlist Loaner Diagnostic Interface." I'll mount the PCB in a box and include the interface, cable and CD with the software. Rennlisters can then mail it to each other. Maybe we can post a thread about that too. Then we can keep track of who has it by way of the thread.
Just a thought...
BTW... I am still trying to chase down my Hall Sensor code as well as the inside motor sensor. Anyone with ideas?
I will start the thread tomorrow with readings of my own. I will post the original readings as well as new ones that I will pull tomorrow. I like the idea of a cold reading first and then posting hot readings at idle and then at different RPMs. If anyone has any other suggestions... Please post them!I also plan on working on my other PCB to get it working. (Tomorrow if I can!) If I can get it working I'll fab up a cable (I have what I need for that) and we can make that one the "Rennlist Loaner Diagnostic Interface." I'll mount the PCB in a box and include the interface, cable and CD with the software. Rennlisters can then mail it to each other. Maybe we can post a thread about that too. Then we can keep track of who has it by way of the thread.
Just a thought...
BTW... I am still trying to chase down my Hall Sensor code as well as the inside motor sensor. Anyone with ideas?
10-16-2006 | 03:57 PM
#55
Race Car
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,045
Likes: 61
From: SoCal
"O2 Sensor = 137 (19)
MAP Sensor = 5 (4)"
You need to get data the outputs like the above fixed as they are meaningless without the proper
values, e.g. O2 sensor S/B 100mv to 800mv, and as such are basically worthless for
doing any troubleshooting or analysis. Also, Channel 5 (???) and MAP (should read
29.99 @ sea level) are not correct (need translation) and meaningless.
"I have a suspision those with standard/stock air boxes vs K&N cone filter systems will display differences in the AFM voltage."
Not really!
MAP Sensor = 5 (4)"
You need to get data the outputs like the above fixed as they are meaningless without the proper
values, e.g. O2 sensor S/B 100mv to 800mv, and as such are basically worthless for
doing any troubleshooting or analysis. Also, Channel 5 (???) and MAP (should read
29.99 @ sea level) are not correct (need translation) and meaningless.
"I have a suspision those with standard/stock air boxes vs K&N cone filter systems will display differences in the AFM voltage."
Not really!
Last edited by Lorenfb; 10-16-2006 at 10:21 PM.
10-17-2006 | 12:21 AM
#57
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Regarding the ‘Input Channels’ page in my scantool software:
I would only be paying attention to the first 4 channels:
-The ‘MAF Sensor’ channel (which should read AFM or Air Flow Meter) is showing the actual voltage output from the air meter as read from the analog to digital converter.
-The ‘Battery’ channel is obvious.
-The ‘NTC 1’ and ‘NTC 2’ channels are showing the ADC counts (if that means anything to you) of the 2 temp sensor inputs and are really not of much value in most cases. What’s being read by the ECU is a voltage. The voltage is transformed into a temperature representation by the ECU software and stored elsewhere. Because the voltage/temperature transformation is not linear these inputs can not easily be displayed as anything very meaningful. The properly transformed temperatures can be seen in the ‘Actual Values’ page.
As for the other channels:
-I don’t recall what’s connected to the channel 5 input.
-The ‘O2 sensor’ input also shows analog to digital converter counts which aren’t of much use. If you’re so inclined, it’s very simple to change the scantool configuration to make this input display as a voltage—someone may have already done this. A better option for looking at the O2 sensor signal is the bar graph on the ‘Lambda Trim’ page. You can actually see the signal swing back and forth as the closed-loop lambda function operates.
-I’m not positive the ‘FQS’ channel is actually the fuel quality switch (that’s what FQS stands for.) It’s possible that the fuel quality switch is connected to this channel via a resistor network. Changing the FQS position would change the voltage that appears on this input.
-The ‘MAP Sensor’ input is actually the Altitude Sensor input. I haven’t seen any USA catalytic cars with this sensor installed—I believe it’s only needed for cars that do not use a lambda sensor and cat. There’s a 3 pin plug under the driver’s seat for the altitude sensor. Because this input is free, it can be used for a MAP sensor. My car has a GM 2 bar MAP sensor on this channel—along with changes to the Motronic software to utilize the MAP sensor signal for ignition retard under boost.
I’ll come up with some more info on the ‘Actual Values’ page when I’ve finished the on-line traffic school.
-doug
I would only be paying attention to the first 4 channels:
-The ‘MAF Sensor’ channel (which should read AFM or Air Flow Meter) is showing the actual voltage output from the air meter as read from the analog to digital converter.
-The ‘Battery’ channel is obvious.
-The ‘NTC 1’ and ‘NTC 2’ channels are showing the ADC counts (if that means anything to you) of the 2 temp sensor inputs and are really not of much value in most cases. What’s being read by the ECU is a voltage. The voltage is transformed into a temperature representation by the ECU software and stored elsewhere. Because the voltage/temperature transformation is not linear these inputs can not easily be displayed as anything very meaningful. The properly transformed temperatures can be seen in the ‘Actual Values’ page.
As for the other channels:
-I don’t recall what’s connected to the channel 5 input.
-The ‘O2 sensor’ input also shows analog to digital converter counts which aren’t of much use. If you’re so inclined, it’s very simple to change the scantool configuration to make this input display as a voltage—someone may have already done this. A better option for looking at the O2 sensor signal is the bar graph on the ‘Lambda Trim’ page. You can actually see the signal swing back and forth as the closed-loop lambda function operates.
-I’m not positive the ‘FQS’ channel is actually the fuel quality switch (that’s what FQS stands for.) It’s possible that the fuel quality switch is connected to this channel via a resistor network. Changing the FQS position would change the voltage that appears on this input.
-The ‘MAP Sensor’ input is actually the Altitude Sensor input. I haven’t seen any USA catalytic cars with this sensor installed—I believe it’s only needed for cars that do not use a lambda sensor and cat. There’s a 3 pin plug under the driver’s seat for the altitude sensor. Because this input is free, it can be used for a MAP sensor. My car has a GM 2 bar MAP sensor on this channel—along with changes to the Motronic software to utilize the MAP sensor signal for ignition retard under boost.
I’ll come up with some more info on the ‘Actual Values’ page when I’ve finished the on-line traffic school.
-doug
