OT : Do they make BMW 'M' estates - or is my car sick????
07-31-2006, 10:00 PM
#76
Originally Posted by McJohn
Oh dear, I know where this could be leading. I was taking the "realist" view, but you are in danger of heading into the "mystical" view. Something along the lines that God himself created 911's and that the true air-cooled spirit shall be revealed only onto the true believers ..."the 911 guys".
I suggest the following course of remedial action. Go to a Harley Davidson rally, a big one, and find yourself a seat at a table of real die hard Harley fans, the real zealots ... you can easily spot them as they all wear T shirts saying "If I had to explain, you wouldn't understand". Buy them a beer, and toast the great God of HD and you will have a gang of new instant buddies. So far so good, these guys have got themself high on the adoration of an icon.
Then screw your courage and ask them what they think of Hondas, or indeed any Japanese motorcycles, and prepare for a barrage of abuse, name calling and the ineviatable "Jap Crap" insults. If you have chosen your company badly and picked some real outlaws, expect a physical pounding as well. Fortunately these days you are more likely to have stumbled upon the usual weekend outlaws, who underneath the HD branded leathers, vests, and hats are all corporate lawyers and real estate guys, who will do nothing more threatening that thump their Rolexes on the table.
Lets now imaging you have stumbled out of the beer hall, and what do you find but a row of new Japanese bikes, cutting edge examples of design, speed and efficiency, parked up near the cherished HDs forged from tube steel and castings with a 1953 part number still on them, even though they are a year old. Can these really be the bikes they truly believe so superior to the modern tackle? You of course as a non accolyte will simply shake your head and wonder why grown men could be so blinded by myth, peer pressure, and brilliant marketing, and hopefully you will walk away, bemused but still with your sense of proportion intact..
This is the "mystical" view of automotive kit taken to its extreme, and it is not a pretty or edifying sight. It was precisely this sort of behaviour that caused me to sell my Harley, (much as I loved it) as in the public mind we were all being tarred with the same brush, and I did not want to be thought of as such a dork.
Here's hoping it doesn't happen with 911's too!
McJohn
I suggest the following course of remedial action. Go to a Harley Davidson rally, a big one, and find yourself a seat at a table of real die hard Harley fans, the real zealots ... you can easily spot them as they all wear T shirts saying "If I had to explain, you wouldn't understand". Buy them a beer, and toast the great God of HD and you will have a gang of new instant buddies. So far so good, these guys have got themself high on the adoration of an icon.
Then screw your courage and ask them what they think of Hondas, or indeed any Japanese motorcycles, and prepare for a barrage of abuse, name calling and the ineviatable "Jap Crap" insults. If you have chosen your company badly and picked some real outlaws, expect a physical pounding as well. Fortunately these days you are more likely to have stumbled upon the usual weekend outlaws, who underneath the HD branded leathers, vests, and hats are all corporate lawyers and real estate guys, who will do nothing more threatening that thump their Rolexes on the table.
Lets now imaging you have stumbled out of the beer hall, and what do you find but a row of new Japanese bikes, cutting edge examples of design, speed and efficiency, parked up near the cherished HDs forged from tube steel and castings with a 1953 part number still on them, even though they are a year old. Can these really be the bikes they truly believe so superior to the modern tackle? You of course as a non accolyte will simply shake your head and wonder why grown men could be so blinded by myth, peer pressure, and brilliant marketing, and hopefully you will walk away, bemused but still with your sense of proportion intact..
This is the "mystical" view of automotive kit taken to its extreme, and it is not a pretty or edifying sight. It was precisely this sort of behaviour that caused me to sell my Harley, (much as I loved it) as in the public mind we were all being tarred with the same brush, and I did not want to be thought of as such a dork.
Here's hoping it doesn't happen with 911's too!
McJohn
Haha - well said, and you make a good point... but comparing a Harley with old 911s is a little simplistic. MY point is that the 911 itself is the experience, and you need not compare it to other cars to derive satisfaction. And if you enjoyed your Harley, you shouldn't have sold it regardless of what other people may think of you.
Anyway, thanks for the laugh - and enjoy that 964.
07-31-2006, 10:07 PM
#77
Originally Posted by N51
Aw come on. You're driving a car that doesn't look like a 911-advantage Nisson. I enjoy your bantor, but keep it in the 993 forum - the car that doesn't do anything for me. Maybe time to change to "pcar993". Mr. Melt. :-)
n
n
08-01-2006, 02:29 AM
#81
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This post has really taken off. A lot of good points have been made.Saying that an old car can't run with the new high tech wounder cars just isn't true.I have friends(yes I do have friends)with old style V-8 push rod engines with carbs that would suck the paint off an M-3,M-5,or most any Porsche in the 1/4 mile,or longer.Look at the old Shelby Cobra its still a very competative car.Why do I have a 964.Well, most of the reasons have been said.Bottom line I love the car.It's just so much fun to drive.I don't think I have ever loved driving a car more than my 964.I've driven the 996, and to me its just missing something.Its a great car,just not for me.The 993 not bad,but still not as much fun as my 964.Its all a matter of taste.
08-01-2006, 03:38 AM
#82
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Thread Starter
And I think we are at that special point where DaveK should close this thread.
Clearly he was unenthused by my supercharger idea anyways.
Clearly he was unenthused by my supercharger idea anyways.
But for the last few years, I've found the 964 fast enough. I am surprised at just how many cars seem just as fast - including BMW estates - but it doesn't make me feel my car needs to go faster. I'm a fan of turbos - and if I really wanted to go faster, the 964 would certainly be making room for a 993TT. The irony is - I would have killed for a 993TT a few years back (and wanted the power) - now I could afford one, I don't really feel I want one.
Mind you - Bad Boys was on TV the other night and that turbo did look damn good. Somebody should have told Will Smith to get clear indicators though....
08-01-2006, 03:44 AM
#83
Race Car
Thread Starter
MY point is that the 911 itself is the experience, and you need not compare it to other cars to derive satisfaction.
I'm not saying that because a BMW estate seems as quick as the 964 that I'm ready to trade in for one - although it does make me have some thoughts about my chosen daily driver.
I think we all agree the 964 has "something" that other cars don't, and that's why we own them / keep them. But on a purely practical basis - and these days, on a speed basis - there are "better" cars out there. They just don't have that "something".
08-01-2006, 06:32 AM
#85
If you feel you need more power and that the 964 platform is the one you want to go with then just modify it. If you want to drop £35K on a stationwagon so you can beat other 964 drivers then do that. For me, emotions do not come into it. History doesn't come into it. If you are nothappy with your car then you modify it or change it. The 964 platform I feel is actually a good platform for mods - the car can be made extremely fast - but I would discourage people from saying 'if you are going to manage that you need Christers car' - there are plenty of cars out there that are faster than mine - starting with Sal965's (Steve) and then you can add in most of the Turbo's out there I am sure
08-01-2006, 08:10 AM
#87
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To be honest - it didn't really bother me that the family car left me behind - but I was just genuinely surprised. I've had the 964 long enough to know that it's not really that fast (relative to many cars) these days. Speed wasn't the reason for looking at Ferraris, and if it was important to me then I would probably sell the 964 and look at turbos. However, I didn't realise just how far "ordinary" cars have come.
It doesn't actually change my view of my 964 at all. It does change my view of modern diesels though, and as a result it does change my view of my Focus and makes me wonder if I should change my daily driver.
But if outright acceleration was the only thing that mattered, I wouldn't bother with cars - my R1 would have destroyed anything on 4 wheels.
It doesn't actually change my view of my 964 at all. It does change my view of modern diesels though, and as a result it does change my view of my Focus and makes me wonder if I should change my daily driver.
But if outright acceleration was the only thing that mattered, I wouldn't bother with cars - my R1 would have destroyed anything on 4 wheels.
08-01-2006, 10:19 AM
#88
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Sal965,
It's a bit different comparing an M5, which is a serious machine (and driving enthusiast's car) to a diesel estate, or mediocre sports cars. Of course 911's are not 100% better in all areas than all cars but comparing them to these lesser models is simply a waste of time.
Comparing 911's to Ferraris, BMW M's or Merc AMG's is more valid and makes some interesting dialogue.
And don't forget most of us on this forum are 911 elitists, are we not?
PS: I know the original poster was asking for opinions on his 'race' against the above mentioned BMW, but you just need to compare the 0-60 times on paper to get the answers. No real discussion needed.
Anyway, no offence meant, regards to all....
It's a bit different comparing an M5, which is a serious machine (and driving enthusiast's car) to a diesel estate, or mediocre sports cars. Of course 911's are not 100% better in all areas than all cars but comparing them to these lesser models is simply a waste of time.
Comparing 911's to Ferraris, BMW M's or Merc AMG's is more valid and makes some interesting dialogue.
And don't forget most of us on this forum are 911 elitists, are we not?
PS: I know the original poster was asking for opinions on his 'race' against the above mentioned BMW, but you just need to compare the 0-60 times on paper to get the answers. No real discussion needed.
Anyway, no offence meant, regards to all....
08-01-2006, 10:24 AM
#89
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Originally Posted by Christer
If you feel you need more power and that the 964 platform is the one you want to go with then just modify it.
08-01-2006, 10:26 AM
#90
Race Car
Thread Starter
PS: I know the original poster was asking for opinions on his 'race' against the above mentioned BMW, but you just need to compare the 0-60 times on paper to get the answers. No real discussion needed.