PPI Questions
06-24-2006, 04:17 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
PPI Questions
Hi, I'm new to this forum, and have been reading it for a while as I am interested in buying a targa 964. I've bought and read Peter Zimmerman's book, Adrian Streather's book, and have studied various other resources available on the Web.
I am increasingly uncertain about the merits of a PPI.
It would be nice to hear from anyone who had a PPI done on a 964, which uncovered faults/issues that *wouldn't* have been found by a careful personal inspection by a non-expert prospective buyer (armed with the above texts etc.). Or those who had a PPI done, which didn't turn up a major problem that was in fact present at inspection time, but came to light afterwards.
I've read lots of anecdotes from 964 owners who bought their 964s "on the spot" or without a PPI: some of these people regret not having a PPI, others (most, apparently) got lucky.
Certainly, if I was an owner selling my 964, I'd be uncomfortable about leaving the car with someone who was going to be doing pretty invasive tests like leak-down or compression ... what recourse would I have if they damaged something, or otherwise adversely affected the car's running/operation? Just how often do such tests turn up problems anyway?
I'd be grateful for advice and comments on the above.
Thanks!
Julian
I am increasingly uncertain about the merits of a PPI.
It would be nice to hear from anyone who had a PPI done on a 964, which uncovered faults/issues that *wouldn't* have been found by a careful personal inspection by a non-expert prospective buyer (armed with the above texts etc.). Or those who had a PPI done, which didn't turn up a major problem that was in fact present at inspection time, but came to light afterwards.
I've read lots of anecdotes from 964 owners who bought their 964s "on the spot" or without a PPI: some of these people regret not having a PPI, others (most, apparently) got lucky.
Certainly, if I was an owner selling my 964, I'd be uncomfortable about leaving the car with someone who was going to be doing pretty invasive tests like leak-down or compression ... what recourse would I have if they damaged something, or otherwise adversely affected the car's running/operation? Just how often do such tests turn up problems anyway?
I'd be grateful for advice and comments on the above.
Thanks!
Julian
06-24-2006, 04:58 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
Ok, I'll go: I had 3 PPI's done on the 3 potential purchases by 2 different shops, all done long-distance. I finally made a long-distance purchase without doing a formal PPI.
Just some random thoughts:
Both shops I worked with were small, I dealt with the shop owner who had long-time experience with air-cooled's, and I felt like they were both very competent.
I relied on them for mechanical evaluations and also for accident/bodywork/paintwork discoveries. They were more confident giving the former than the latter, but they did report on things that were obvious and that was good enough for me. I never got to the point where I wanted to put it under more of a microscope (in other words, either they failed the mechanical checkout, or accident damage was obvious).
They performed leakdown tests, and that ruled one car out that otherwise looked pretty good. Honestly, especially on a 964, I don't think as a seller I would be comfortable with allowing this unless I thought this was going to absolutely make the sale. In fact, I was really close on a '90 C4 cab but the owner got pi$$y when I wanted to do a PPI, so I pulled out. It was for the best, I ended up getting a better car anyway.
I ended up buying from a Porsche dealer without a PPI. I asked a ton of questions, got him to do a paint-meter check, got him to fax me the service records for the last 10 years, talked to the PO, and rolled the dice. It turned out well. They described everything about the car accurately. I will admit that I ended up spending more on the purchase price than I intended to, so the old saw about "buy the best one you can afford" may come into play here, as the higher price bracket,the more chance of finding a good one.
There is no standard for a PPI, and no competency assurance about the shop you chose. AND it's a fair amount of money out of your pocket. So I can see both arguments.
Just some random thoughts:
Both shops I worked with were small, I dealt with the shop owner who had long-time experience with air-cooled's, and I felt like they were both very competent.
I relied on them for mechanical evaluations and also for accident/bodywork/paintwork discoveries. They were more confident giving the former than the latter, but they did report on things that were obvious and that was good enough for me. I never got to the point where I wanted to put it under more of a microscope (in other words, either they failed the mechanical checkout, or accident damage was obvious).
They performed leakdown tests, and that ruled one car out that otherwise looked pretty good. Honestly, especially on a 964, I don't think as a seller I would be comfortable with allowing this unless I thought this was going to absolutely make the sale. In fact, I was really close on a '90 C4 cab but the owner got pi$$y when I wanted to do a PPI, so I pulled out. It was for the best, I ended up getting a better car anyway.
I ended up buying from a Porsche dealer without a PPI. I asked a ton of questions, got him to do a paint-meter check, got him to fax me the service records for the last 10 years, talked to the PO, and rolled the dice. It turned out well. They described everything about the car accurately. I will admit that I ended up spending more on the purchase price than I intended to, so the old saw about "buy the best one you can afford" may come into play here, as the higher price bracket,the more chance of finding a good one.
There is no standard for a PPI, and no competency assurance about the shop you chose. AND it's a fair amount of money out of your pocket. So I can see both arguments.
06-24-2006, 05:50 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
No PPI here, but I bought locally. I checked the car out myself.
The PO had PPI results from a couple of years prior so there was good info on compression and leakdown available... though the data was about 2 years old I took the risk sicne the car ran perfect.
Obvious statement #43: A PPI is only as good as the shop that does it.
I have seen many posts here where PPIs were done but major stuff was missed resulting in pain later.
If you know enough to check it out yourself, do it! Many items can be done yourself with a little research. For example, accident damage most often leaves telltale signs after the repair.
I'd rather fly somewhere than have an unknown shop do the PPI.
Some of the major items on the PPI (i.e. leakdown test) are probably worth it to have done "a la carte".
There's my .02 cents...
The PO had PPI results from a couple of years prior so there was good info on compression and leakdown available... though the data was about 2 years old I took the risk sicne the car ran perfect.
Obvious statement #43: A PPI is only as good as the shop that does it.
I have seen many posts here where PPIs were done but major stuff was missed resulting in pain later.
If you know enough to check it out yourself, do it! Many items can be done yourself with a little research. For example, accident damage most often leaves telltale signs after the repair.
I'd rather fly somewhere than have an unknown shop do the PPI.
Some of the major items on the PPI (i.e. leakdown test) are probably worth it to have done "a la carte".
There's my .02 cents...
06-24-2006, 07:39 PM
#4
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I'm considering a long distance purchase too - I feel like it would be $200 (or whatever) well spent on the PPI at the local Porsche dealer - I had my brother check the car out in person (luckily he lives where the one I'm looking at is for sale) but he isn't a mechanic - I'm not a mechanic - and even with reading all the books, and lurking on this site for months and months I'd feel like an idiot if I didn't get a PPI and something turned up later that might have been caught. Buying used cars is a bit of a crap shoot - and knowledge is the most important thing. You should do what you can to get as much knowledge as possible because you know once you drive the car and that Porsche lust kicks in your best judgement goes out the window! 
06-24-2006, 08:09 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
If you can get a competent shop to do a PPI (with a leakdown) on a 964 for $200, my hat's off to you. They'll do Carrera's and SC's all day long for that, but I got quotes on 964's of anywhere from $500 to $900. No, I'm serious - supposedly based on "the extra work it takes to do it on one of these cars".
Long-distance is tough. It's highly situational, I always told myself that for this kind of dough, I would fly in and check it out myself. But in this case, I knew the Porsche dealer had been around for a long time and seemed reputable, they gave me a list of things their techs had fixed in the process of checking the car out, and I figured that if they had any misgivings about it, they would have just auctioned it. Otherwise, it's just too much hassle for them.
I've bought 4 other cars long-distance, although a lot lower-priced: one I would not have bought if I had seen it in person, two I would say were 'borderline', and one has been one of the best I've ever owned. We'll see how this one works in the long run, but so far, I think I did ok.
Long-distance is tough. It's highly situational, I always told myself that for this kind of dough, I would fly in and check it out myself. But in this case, I knew the Porsche dealer had been around for a long time and seemed reputable, they gave me a list of things their techs had fixed in the process of checking the car out, and I figured that if they had any misgivings about it, they would have just auctioned it. Otherwise, it's just too much hassle for them.
I've bought 4 other cars long-distance, although a lot lower-priced: one I would not have bought if I had seen it in person, two I would say were 'borderline', and one has been one of the best I've ever owned. We'll see how this one works in the long run, but so far, I think I did ok.
06-24-2006, 08:10 PM
#6
Technical Specialist
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
I bought long distance, and had two PPI's done on the car I bought. The first shop was recommended, and they did a very poor job (the leakdown, as I recall, showed 40%-80% figures). The second shop was quite a bit more competent, and found a leaking power steering hose, which the owner replaced.
Can you do a PPI yourself? If you're familiar with 911's, yes. If you only have book knowledge, I'd suggest a PPI by a qualified shop is money well spent. Use the book knowledge to discuss the PPI with the shop. In a way, it's kinda like sex....you can read the books, but until you've done it, you don't really know.
Can you do a PPI yourself? If you're familiar with 911's, yes. If you only have book knowledge, I'd suggest a PPI by a qualified shop is money well spent. Use the book knowledge to discuss the PPI with the shop. In a way, it's kinda like sex....you can read the books, but until you've done it, you don't really know.
06-24-2006, 08:13 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Bill Gregory
... In a way, it's kinda like sex....you can read the books, but until you've done it, you don't really know...
