KirkF

Incidentally i used to keep a set of wires connected in a Y with spades on the ends to jumper out the DME in my 944. Judging by some of the comments on here I assume the 964s have the same problem with early relay failure. (probably because they are running too much power through the contacts) Some things porsche never seems to fix.

On the 944 it powered the fuel pump with one contact and the DME with the other.

Kirk

chancecasey

doh! i was doing 8 instead of 7. once i got the correct tri-jumper - FIRED RIGHT UP! woohoo! initial breakin done, just drained the oil - about to change the filter and add oil and give it the run around the block.


I AM SO FREAKIN PUMPED!!!!!

stevepaa

Great. When you get back check everything for leaks.
Are you planning on doing some hills then, power up hard and decel hard for about 30 minutes?

KirkF

Congratulations!
I hope mine goes that well.

Steve has some good advice. Its a nice time to properly seat the rings.

Kirk

chancecasey

Well, amazing high to a very worrying low. Power from 2-4k was great. Really hard not to go over 4k. did accel/decel for about 15 or 20 minutes. No leaks except (and i suspected this all along but wasn't sure) at the pressure fitting where the super long oil pipe (from case to filter) has the rubber segment. Nowhere else so far though - so that's great.

The potentially bad news - sounds like a bad rod bearing. I don't F-ing get it. I was SO freaking **** about this thing - how the H#LL could this happen? It's not really noticeable until you put the engine under some load - but it's just the right frequency to be a rod bearing. I am praying to god it's just some kind of idiosynchracy of the cams and the engine still breaking in, but I"m not feeling so great about it. Of all the things - I just don't get it. Even with a contamination I would think it would take quite a while for a rod bearing to give. I know I put the damn thing in there right. We'll see...

I'm going to get a mechanic buddy to get his stethescope to try to pinpoint it. Wish me luck!!!!

John Boggiano

Good luck!

This thread has been a roller coaster ride!

darth

How's the oil pressure? A bad rod bearing should give a low oil pressure reading. If you remove the spark from the suspect cylinder and the noise goes away you've found the cylinder with the bad bearing. I have to caution you. If it is a bad bearing, running the engine causes further damage to what may otherwise be a reconditional crank at this point if no further damage is done. If you have to run it to diagnose if it is a bearing keep the run time to a minimum as well as speed and load.


Bill
90C2

chancecasey

Oil pressure is great. I just hope I didn't damage it during the initial 20-minute break-in ( I didn't even hear it ). Started to hear it during the 15-minute drive on accelerations, and after that 15 minutes have not fired it back up. I just talked to someone last night who told me do NOT use the torque method of tightening the ARP rod bolts - stretch method is the only way to go. He has done both simultaneously and witnessed a fully torqued bolt barely register on stretch - far from it's ideal tightness. Wish I would have known that - there still seems to be a lack of consensus with us amateurs. FYI!!!

I'll know more after tonight.

KirkF

Chance,

Hopefully its just something in the valve train ticking, but make sure before you run the engine too much. As mentioned you don't want to damage the crank. They are $5000 new, and about $1800 used. Also most places recommend not machining porsche cranks to the next undersize. (Although in our application I don't think it would matter. Thats mostly for race use.)

Funny you should mention stretch gauges, I have heard the same thing about the innacuracy of torque. I am borrowing a stretch gauge from a guy to do my rod bolts. I read the ARP instructions and they seemed to quite strongly prefer stretch over torque.

I had never really heard of stretch before, but I was reading the rebuild manual for my 1972 BSA on the weekend, and sure enough they specified stretch for the rod bolts as well.

I will probably be putting my rods on the crank next weekend, so I will take some pictures.


Best of luck,
Kirk

chancecasey

DEFINITELY go with stretch - that's what the porche racing mechanic told me. He said he's even had a couple so hard to turn he had to put everything he's got into it to get the right stretch (ridiculously off the torque scale). He's also seen a few motors blow up for this exact reason. At the risk of being redundant - word to the wise - use stretch.

It's been so long since I did that part I don't remember for sure if I even torqued them more than once (really really bad). My know-it-all neighbor who has done "thousands" of motors told me that wasn't necessary and it's "bad" to "stretch" the bolts more than once. That's what I get for listening to someone without porsche / ARP experience. I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst - I've heard the sound of a bad rod connection before (on a '79 corolla) and it sounds exactly like that - just not as severe yet.

On the upside - I have zero detectable leakage so far except one place - the pressure fitting on the giganto oil line from the case to the filter flange. Easy enough to replace.

Of course, I'm going to have split the case, AGAIN. Wow, this will be 4 times that I've assembled a 3.6 case now - and on my very first engine rebuild. Who all on this forum can say that? Maybe I'll just take the bottom end over to Jerry Woods - at that point the labor required is pretty minimal but I'm so, I dunno, I feel like I'm in a duel to the death and letting someone else fight the battle for me just wouldn't be the honorable thing to do - but my family can only take so much of me being sequestered in the garage. Not sure what I'll do - I'm so bummed. But I'm not giving up. I'll keep throwing rights and lefts until I beat this b*tch into submission one way or the other.

Then of course I'll never be able to let her go.

KirkF

Chance,

Splitting the case this time won't be bad. You might as well do it youself. Drop the engine and locate the problem and then you can take a breather while the replacement parts come in. Order up the wrightwood racing gasket sets so you dont have any issues with the throughbolt o-rings. and you get all green viton.

Your neighbour would have been right on a normal rod bolt, they can only be torqued once, and then they have to be replaced. However when using torque on the ARP bolts, you are supposed to torque them, loosen them off, reoil and then torque again.

Good job on the leaks. You used the threebond 1104 on the case halves and cam towers and 574 on the main webs right? How did you find using the 1104?

I am using 1104 to seal the case halves on a BSA motor this weekend, just so I can get used to it.

If you want a funny story about motors, I went to seal that BSA engine casing last sunday, and I totally screwed it up. Everything looked fine, I put the threebond on and went to assemble the halves and they wouldnt fit properly. 7 tries and 4 hours later I realised I was binding on a crankshaft shim which was supposed to be put into the other case half and not on the crank. Of course by then the threebond was hard as a rock and I had to reclean the mating surfaces, etc etc etc. Just a running disaster from start to finish. I am hoping attempt #8 this weekend will workout better.

Kirk

chancecasey

Yeah on the o-rings the blue ones i totally destroyed during the first case assemble - got some new ones from porsche dealer - they were RED. Didn't know much about them but they felt very very solid - and they are obviously doing their job so far. I also use plain old red valvoline axle grease to lube them up - and I was very careful not to let the bolt head turn when torquing the nut. If you know of a good source for the green ones I might give them a try but I'll inspect my red ones first - they survived one install / take apart / reinstall without a scratch.

Yep 1104 on the case and heads/cam, 574 on the webs, 1211 on the nose.

My only issue with 1104 is I don't have a fine-tip spout for it, and when I pulled the tube away from the surface I got these superfine "hairs" like 2 feet long. Kind of annoying. The stuff seals like nobody's business though. I recommend MEK and a brass brush (parallel to surface line) to get it off - just wipe the MEK/sealant sludge off with a paper towel before it evaporates - comes right off. The other thing, which may or may not be so terrible, when I was draining the crankcase I saw a tiny little string of 1104 come out. Obviously from the squeeze-out. Less is more. This is probably true of any sealant though - 1104 is just thick and difficult to manipulate. I incorrectly assumed the squeeze-out would stay put. I guess most of it did but not this piece. I'll check my oil filter.

1211 gets very rubbery and is significantly more difficult to pick out - MEK doesn't really "cut" or dissolve it. I recommend a chisel for 574 Some guys don't put anything on the webs.

Good to hear I'm not the only one who goofs case jobs up. Another funny anecdote about case sealing - this old guy in Oakland - Sam Sipkins - does a lot of 356's - swears by an old aircraft method - he uses curil-T and a 100% pure silk thread laid down one time around the surface. He says it deforms and seals perfectly - hasn't failed him yet.

KirkF

EBS Racing has the green ones, http://www.ebsracing.com/
They sell them individually, however maybe you should buy the wrightwood racing bottom end gasket set, it has them included in it.

I havent been able to find MEK in canada. I think it might be banned here. Not sure. I have been using Permatex gasket remover with good results though.

For all the engine O-rings I intend on using Dow Corning 111. I am going to give it a test run with the BSA motor as well.

Kirk

stevepaa

Chance, I have the rod bolt stretch gage to use.