I don't like the sound of this (at all...)
 

Just been out for a short jaunt and, immediately after a bit of a hop over a lump in the road, my engine has started making the most appaling racket.

Sounds like a ropey old diesel engine idling, but much much louder. The sound rises and falls with revs. Imagine someone sticking a large twig or a screwdriver blade into the fan and you'll get the idea.There's absolutely nothing visibly wrong, at the roadside, and the engine runs and performs totally normally. But what a din!

It doesn't sound like an exhaust problem but if (as I fear) it's bearings, wouldn't there be some other symptoms (or a little warning) and would it happen so instantaneously?

:(

Yikes! That's the sound of money leaving your wallet. I have no idea what that might be, John, but I hope its something other than bearings. $$$$$

Hope its a happy ending, J. Doesn't sound at all promising, though, I would agree..

I guess looking at some of the advice from the semi recent thread when pesty's car suddenly went all noisy, broke its big end bearings, might be a good start: I suppose I would be desperate to drop the oil to see if theres chunks of metal coming out, but maybe best to get it to the specialist before doing all of that.

Or maybe this is your opportunity to fit Motec or a supercharger at last!

Good luck, got my fingers crossed..

John:

Sorry to hear about this. If you spun a bearing, the noise would come on rather suddenly. For sure look for other less expensive problems before pulling the engine. Ideas:

broken chain tensioner
distributor (not sure this could get that loud)
alternator (bad bearing, broken rotor)
power steering pump

Good luck. This is not a nice Christmas surprise.

John... I'm thinking something has fallen into the space between the fan and the alternator. I can't imagine a bearing going bad because of a bump in the road. It is tied to engine revs and NOT speed, yes?

Imagine an old tin/aluminum rubbish can with a length of heavy chain inside. If you grabbed the end of the chain and dragged it out of the rubbish can, over the edge - might it sound like that? If so the last time I heard it was the result of a failed chain tensioner on a 2.7L motor.

Not nearly as expensive as bearings if it turns out to be the root cause. Luck to you Sir.

RallyDog,

I guess it could be described that way.

Here's hoping...

Remove the fan belt, see it the noise continues, go from there.

Hiya John Boggiano
An oil test will tell you if its bearings . I would not run the motor at all until it is fixed .

I agree with Indycam, I wouldn't want to run this untill I was 100% sure of the cause, to much to lose JB.
Oil samples, and making sure nothing is obviously externally loose would be my starting points

kevin

John, this sounds like the noise I had earlier this year, I hope not as it was bearing #3. OUCH

It's in any case an eyewatering sound so close to Christmas. Hope it turns out ok.

Hi John,

If I were you I'd start with simple things like something interfering with the fan or belts, before worrying about the big stuff. You say you noticed no difference in performance, and this intuitively makes me think the problem isn't as big as you may be thinking.
Good luck mate, and have a good Christmas.

Craig

Tough luck JB, hope you get it sorted.

JH

Have you tried turning the engine over using a wrench on the alternator fan to locate the noise? If you have a stethoscope you should be able to narrow down the exact location.

Inerestingly, I THINK that when the engine is being turned over there's no noise - only when it actually fires. I'll investigate a little today.

Hi John,

Sorry to hear about your noise; that's some weird symptoms that you are describing. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Good luck!

David

John, are you absolutely certain that this noise was coming from the engine bay. I often make similar sounds after a good feed of brussels sprouts.

No noise when turning over / noise when fired up , bearings .

Indycam - Sorry to be a bit thick but why is that? Wouldn't there be some horrible sound regardless of whether the spark plugs were working?

Thanks,

David

Hiya Caveman
The thing that makes noise , the explosion slamming the parts together .

:eek: :icon501: :(

Hiya Caveman
Been there done that . Not going back again , never never never ! I really hope , cause it sucks .

That's the understatement of the year! Let's hope that there is an alternative explanation for John.

Cheers,

David

Just got off the phone to Ninemeister, who feel it's a big-end. They seem surprised that the oil-pressure (and every other aspect) was unaffected, however, so there is a ray of hope that it's something lesser. Unfortunately, they can't take the car in until Jan 6th, so watch this space...


:(

Hi John,

At least you are in good hands with 9M. Maybe you could have Colin breathe a little while the car is in?! ;-)

Good luck!

Cheers,

David

Wouldn't a big end failure have some effect on the way the engine was running? Sureley it would I would have thought. I'd be more inclined to go for the timing chain theory, sounds more plausible (and cheaper!!!). Lets hope anyway. Keep us posted.

big end failure? English translation plz.

Bottom end... the expensive stuff :(

John,

Maybe you should join the ranks of sundog and I who are in the process of tearing apart our motors!
Kick the wife out of her half of the garage and drop it out! By Jan 6th you'll know whats going on for sure.

Misery loves company? :icon501: Umm Errr I mean we would love to have you join us...

Kirk

John fingers crossed for you. bottom end re build is no joke. hope its just a loose bolt.

"big end failure? English translation plz."
The conecting rod has two ends , the big end is the end that goes around the crankshaft . The bearing
that goes in between the big end and the crankshaft is what has failed on many 964s on this list .

"Wouldn't a big end failure have some effect on the way the engine was running?"
A big end bearing failure , H.P. wise , no real effect . Its just one part hammering another .

When you say the bearing failed, do you mean the rod bolts sheared and the end cap came off? Else what is meant by bearing failure?

Hiya Stevepaa
When the bolts break , thats a rod failure .
When the bearing fails , the rods ok per say , its the bearing in between the con rod and the crankshaft that is comeing apart . The bearing starts falling apart / "spinning" / melting / burning . When the bearing fails , the gap between the con rod and the crankshaft becomes to large and the parts do not move smoothly and nice , the two parts that are now not with a nice bearing to hold them apart start smashing into each other . As soon as they start smashing into each other the rod and crank get damaged . The little bits of the bearing thats comeing apart are in the oil thats being flug around inside the case . The bearing bits end up all over and get into places that you really don't want it to be .

This thread will give me nightmares.

Any statistics as to what appx. percentage of 964s have had a bearing failure like this? And what are the typical main contributors to the problem--if any? Or is it just bad luck?

John, I have my fingers crossed for you, your wallet, and your car!

John - All may not be lost - I had a similiar experience and it wa sthe shaft on the alternator that broke in half - can't explain why - but it made a lot of racket - the fan stayed in place and I was really stumped for a while - but finally figured it out - ran me 195 USD fior a new Alternator - Hope yuo have as simple a problem.

Not as bad as JB's nightmares..that description is very useful, Indy, but a little bit of a horror story!

In my 4 years on the 964 list, there seem to be more big end failures recently than I remember..I'm sure its coincidence, together with forums like these having a magnetic pull towards tales of anguish..or alternatively this is a 964 age-related thing which is only now just emerging 15 years later, and is going start happening more and more..

(Doomed! We're all doomed!)

Seriously - this is probably just as common as in any car, and we are seeing our cars all getting old and tired, so a few are going to turn up, I suppose. The only theoretical contribution I know of is crap getting into the oil system - e.g. lack of care taken when oil lines/thermostat etc are opened or replaced; there's usually alot of accumulated dirt around these places.

John had an oiltank replaced relatively recently..


(BTW, I'm posting more than usual cos I've been in bed with a cold for the past 3 days...sniff.)

I wouldn't go that far but I can clearly see a sword hanging from the ceiling fastened with a horse hair, pointing at our heads :eek:
I'll just keep on whistling on the grave yard. :biggulp:
Get well soon Johny

Could be related to all this super thin high performance oil ? It wasnt in the motor when they were new !!

Geoff

Geoff,

Do you run your car in the winter? If so, what oil do you run?

I'm in New York where it gets cold. Not as cold as where you are, of course, but enough so that I decided to put the 0w-40 mobil 1 in for this winter. I've seen enough postings on this that it's concerning me.

Sorry for the hijack. Just too many oil threads out there. I didn't want to start another one!

Eeek! The big end rears it's head again....
Been there, done that, emptied the wallet :crying:
Mine spun the bearing in the rod, taking out the crank and oil pump for starters....
Easier to get a recon engine than to source a crank & rebuild mine.
Not much fun however you look at it.
Hope yours isn't that bad John.

Rushjob- so you did in fact get a recon engine? How has it performed and what was the price difference vs. the rebuild?

c

I still think that the noise has something to do with the bump that John ran over. I think it would be strange (but I guess not totally out of the question) that there might be a major mechanical failure just after hitting or being caused by a bump in the road. I'm thinking that something came loose and fell into the wrong spot... Or something was thrown up off of the road into a "bad place."

I'll be following this thread until the true cause is found.

dfinnegan,
The oil gets changed once a year , round about spring. I go for 10-40 or 15-50 .
I think that as long as you let the oil get up to temperature before going for it the 911 motor is not as delicate as a lot of people believe !
Hey , it gets pretty cold down in NY . We are only at -2 C today but -12 tonight.
Compared to inland this is spring !!!!

Geoff

As to statistics, mine had a 300% chance of a spun bearing. :eek: I am amazed that with all the bearing metal going through the engine, that only the #3 rod bearing went south.

Sorry to hear about this, John. :( Fingers crossed that it's not too major.

JW

PS: Thanks for the clear explanation of big end failure, Indycam.

Dear John,

I really hope the problem with your car is not as expensive as it sounds, and that we will be able to read the tale of your little Christmas-scare in a future issue of Total 911.

Thanks for your great contributions here and in the magazine during the past year.

Merry Christmas!

Jens

[QUOTE=Johnny G Pipe]...John had an oiltank replaced relatively recently... /QUOTE]

If it is a bearing, this is too much of a coincidence. If the engine comes apart, be sure to document any debris in the oil passages. If an oil passage to a failed bearing is plugged with foreign material, the people that replaced the oil tank should be asked to pay for the repairs.

Obviously getting them to pay is a long putt, but at least they should be scolded and reported. They might be more careful next time if they get to see the consequences of poor workmanship, assuming this is the cause.

Let's all hope this is the alternator or something less expensive.

That's a scary scenario if this was caused by some crap workmanship on another repair.

Been away for a few days.

Thanks for the comments, suggestions (and even praise!), guys.

Johnny's memory is playing a trick, I'm afraid (unless mine is, also) - I just checked, my oil tank WAS replaced, but it was way back in August 2002! Doesn't time fly?!!

AS mentioned - I won't know anything further until it goes off to 9M on January 6th.

Well keep us posted, please.

Marc

John,
Been offline completely due to qtr end pressures followed by a lovely family xmas (thanks for the card, much appreciated).

Sorry to hear about the engine, fingers crossed, let me know if you need any running around doing/taxi service to/from 9M etc.
Regards,
Kevin.

Kevin,

Thanks for the (typical of you) kind offer. I doubt I'll need to take it up, but will let you know if so.

On it's way, 10.30am this morning...

What a horrible feeling...

c

I hope it turns out okay John. BTW can you tell what spacers you have on the car? Cheers

Fingers crossed.

Thanks - 9M have said they won't get to it until Monday.

Kris - sorry, can't remember the size. If the car ever comes back, I'll let you know! ;)

Come on John, chin-up, you'll see her back :bigbye:

An update:

They don't know why, but the valves and pistons have touched eachother on the right side of the engine.

It seems that the camshaft slipped, for some strange reason - certainly I didn't over rev the engine...

Anyway, bearings are OK, so bill is looking like £3.5k so it could be worse, I guess.

Crank and bearings all AOK, but they are going to renew the bearing shells as a preacution while they are in there.

FYI - Colin Belton has said that he's never seen a 964 engine with a dodgy oil-squirter, and that (at 2mm) they are larger than those of the 993, which were reduced in size to route more pressure to the hydraulic tappets. I had asked about replacing the squirters, as a precaution - but he feels it would be a waste of time/money.

Must dash now - in the middle of translating a a very interesting document from German into English...

As a Scotsman I find it hard to greet the news that it will "only" cost £3.5k as good news, but I suppose it could have been a lot worse. Thanks for the update John, and I shall watch the rest of the story with baited breath (and mildly palpitating wallet!)

McJohn

Hi John,

Given that it is being done by a highly reputed shop it could be a lot worse. Having said that it's a chunk of change. One way to look at it is that if you have had the car for more than three years then you have already saved this money through not feeling the need to replace it which is what you would have done if you had not bought a Porsche...

Depending upon how it goes do you think that you might get a few tweaks while it is in there? ;-)

Fingers crossed for you and let us know how you get on

Cheers,

David

John, was wondering about your car and glad to get the update. I'm with McJohn on the £3.5k!!!

Keeping everything crossed over here,


--H

Shhhh - we can't tell anyone yet ;)

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Come on guys....what's the big secret..........could it possibly be the internal workings of the Hammer???? i.e. so you could build an emulator to run on a PC????

bet it is.

Taj.

Hi John

Just curious, I can't imagine the cam chain jumped a tooth and you said it wasn't over reved, so is it possible something like carbon got in between the valve(s) and piston(s) - is it more than one valve/piston? If they're replacing the bearing halves which is essentially replacing the bearings (I think or is there roller bearings in there too on the "big end"?) will they have to do any machining/polishing before they do so?

Bill
90C2

Hiya
I'm very glad to hear that it wasn't bearings . I would also like to know how the cam slipped .

John,
Do you have an aftermarket chip fitted? I read somewhere that some of them increase the rev limit?
Barry

Evening, Barry.

Did you like your Christmas present? ;)

Yes, I DO have a chip, but I never drive past the redline and, on this occasion, I'm sure i wasn't even close.

Evening John,

Fits a treat - that should keep everyone guessing....

Yes...... but the picture that flashed in my head when I read that was...... one that I rather wish hadn't! :eek:

Yes, Barry, just remember to keep the stretchy bit around the bottom nice and snug.

Funny how Dave's avatar puts you in mind of it, isn't it?

Maybe I should get zips fitted for quicker access?

On a more serious note - how would the cam have slipped? The only adjustment is by moving the locating pin that you use to get the cam timing spot on.

John,
Glad to hear (as all are above) that the news is better than it could have been.

Does Colin have an opinion as to the cause? Are the timing chain sprockets warn? could cause the sprocket to jump a couple of teeth maybe?

When will you get the car back? we need another run, and I hope you werent downloading content from our friend Alois' web site, if so I shall be forced to come around and steal your refurbed motor!

Cheers,
Kevin.

Now that's a good idea. I promise to buy the next copy of Total 911 if it's got an article about JBs new RUF powered 911!

No idea as to the cuase, as yet. The sprocket hadn't jumped a tooth. Colin did say there was a remnant of debris (plastic) of some sort in there - maybe a fragment of something got chucked up into the sprocket for a moment?

I have to confess - the German bit is not actually to do with my car. Well, only very indirectly...

Failed/worn chain tensioner/guide ?
Oil squirters another urban myth ? (It wouldn't be the first :icon501: )

Any updates John?

Hiya
If the plastic bit got between the chain and the crank sprocket , it could cause the cam to be advanced . The crank sprockets pulls the chain that pulls the cam . The plastic bit gets inbetween the chain and the sprocket , the chain goes around the plastic bit and doesn't sit on the sprocket , the cam gets pulled forward / advanced ?
What was the plastic bit from ?

ring off the top of a plastic oil bottle maybe?

That reminds me of the time I was topping up the gearbox oil many years ago, on a Fiat X1/9.

When I'd finished, I found that the end of the plastic tube had disappeared into the gearbox...

No updates as yet, I'm afraid. Colin Belton has been at the AutoSport show, so I don't think anything further has been done. Plus, I seem to have been too busy to check it out.

Ridiculous, isn't it? :)

JB, just finished reading your comparative article 3.2 versus 964. Very well balanced and refined, in fact I'm going to show it to a colleague and friend who's a die hard pre-964 fan (two 3.2's and a 2.4). Keep up the good work. BTW,I also used to have an 86 MR2, lovely little machines weren't they?

Thanks, Kris.

Even the 3.2 owner said he enjoyed it and it was very unbiased (which is genuinely how I wrote it), which was nice.

No news yet, BTW - once again, too busy to check! I must get to it tomorrow!

Oh, Re: the MR2, the Cayman very much replicates (but more so, of course) it's verve and brilliant handling.

Wandering OT a mite, but congrats on the piece, your first "proper" published work, and very good it was too. I await the next one eagerly.

McJ

Is this a T911 article? Great news... I will eagerly await reading it! Congrats JB!

I would have taken the car to a loyal advertiser......


...just kidding JB....

Hopefully, I might persuade him...

He could spend some of my bill on several years' worth, I should think!

Thank you, Howard.

Much as i enjoy the writing, I don't think you'll be seeing me at too many award ceremonies just yet...

:)

Your too modest sir! :)

JB is being a touch modest here.

Really? I dunno...I expect its fairly accurate. I shudder to think of the repair costs! :)

Here's a bit of an update.

I just spoke to Robin (the 'horse' at Ninemeister, as in 'from the horse's mouth', if you see what I mean).

It seems that the camshaft 'pin' had come out. Now, I'm not at all familiar with this bit of the camshaft but, according to Robin, this is pretty much impossible because the retaining nut and washer (which, apparently, stop the pin from coming out) are still there and secure.

Anyone like to comment on this?

Good news is that, although all three right-side exhaust valves are damaged, the relevant pistons seem to have escaped damage.

Anyway, my engine now has to wait for the engine-building area to become free (which could be a couple of weeks) before work gets underway.

Hi John,

Hopefully that's good news if your pistons are unaffected?

Cheers,

David

I think I said this before, but the whole thing is really ironic because, in spite of now being at 100k miles, the bottom end of my engine seems to be in absolutely superb shape. And the top end, from what i can gather.

So it's far from automatic that you need to worry about big ends failing around 100k miles...

The pin I think Robs referring to is the dowel in the vernier cam drive.
Physically impossible for it to come out IIRC. The dowl is held in it's location by the large flat washer which is in turn secured by the bolt which holds the vernier to the camshaft itself. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: Is there no damage to the end of the cam itself ( or for that matter the vernier gear ?)

Atgani,
Is it possible for the pin to escape the cam hub by moving forward? It's not a blind hole that it sits in, but a hole that is open on the forward side where there's a cover of sorts. If indeed that's the pin and the washer is intact, then it had to slip out of the forward side of the gear. :confused: :confused: :confused:

mojorising Attached picture with pin arrowed. Unless the bolt securing the gear to the shaft itself has come loose (which J Bs description indicated nothing was loose/broken) the pin as you can see is retained by the large flat washer on the front and is retained (IIRC) by the flange formed on the end of the cam (so it cannot move out of either end)

Hiya Atgani
Great photo !
It would be nice to see a photo of John Boggianos pin / chain / guides / etc ..

That IS a great picture - I was having trouble visualising it until now.

Do you think it's possible that, if something jammed the camshaft for a moment (eg. the mystery piece of plastic that may/may not have been involved) then the force on the sprocket could crush/shatter the pin?

John, you mentioned some "plastic debris" were found, as you can see from the picture the two cam chain tensioners/guides are possible culprits for the source of these debris.
It would be interesting to know whether or not the pin is intact and undamaged.
As Rob said, it is physically impossible for it to drop out

That washer only just covers the edge of the pin in the photo...

Enough that I don't see how it could come out though. Although it doesn't cover the whole pin, it does seem to cover the entire "body" of the pin - in other words it does cover the whole edge.

The three exhaust valves getting bent is a clue . For all three to be bent the cam had to be turning .
At no point are all three exhaust valves open at the same time . The cam must have been turning for all three exhaust valves to be bent . The motor ran ? But ran with a knock ?

That's a good point - because apart from the noise, John said it ran fine (I think) - which it surely couldn't have done if the pin had dropped out and the cam wasn't turning.

Absolutely right, Dave.

That was WHY I drove it home. Naturally, I didn't use a lot of throttle but, from what I could tell, it all felt perfectly normal. Either that, or I must be totally mechanically insensitive...

Drives over big bump , plastic thing jumps into chain , cam timing gets messed up ,
pistons bend valves , drives home and parks car , then the pin gets stressed out and takes a hike ?

I don't know but I do not think the pin is a drive pin . I think the bolt and washer clamp the cam sprocket to the cam and the pin sets the timing . Is it possible that the pin was never in place ?

That's exactly what I was just wondering...

If that pin falls out or otherwise gets sheared in half, etc. it's possible for the engine to keep trucking along as the bolt actually tightens the cam sprocket in place. Now the pin does ensure that the sprocket will not change locations in relative to the camshaft, but it's still possible for the engine to run properly without the pin, although not adviseable. :eek:

My guess is that the pin was missing for awhile, be it a day or a week...or a month for that matter...and sudden jolts, acceleration or deceleration re-oriented the cam sprocket position, changing the timing for that cam...the cam could've moved just ONCE and would cause damage to those three valves...tolerances are fairly tight in a flat six in regards to valve to piston clearance, but there is some "wiggle-room".

I can post more pics relative to my explanation here soon, as I currently have my engine disassembled for a reseal. :)

I think it's hard to believe that the pin was never there. At slow speeds, I'd believe the bolt / washer would keep the sprocket clamped to the camshaft - but at 6500rpm I'm sure it would have let go before now. (I'm assuming John doesn't drive like a 75 year old grandmother).

Jeff's explanation sounds pretty good.

Davek, the 993 uses precisely the method you describe to secure the drive gear to the cam, ie no dowel. The only difference was the 993 used a concave/convex ? washer to apply more clamping force onto the gear( in place of the woodruff key) When it was found this method was causing cam timing slip on the 993 Rs engines they reverted back to the earlier 964 type vernier setup................. For the "cooking" 993 engines a special finish was applied to the clamping washer to give it a non slip effect.
What we really need to know John, is whether or not the pin is still intact.

Interesting.

Of course, this means that if I'd been working for Porsche when they were working on the 993 engine I would have said "that won't work" - and I'd have been right! ;)

John,

Any updates? I saw Colin Belton at the Autosport show where he, whilst talking about some upgrades to help me keep up in Wales, said your car was still in bits in the workshop.

John - any smoke - a bearing would bring smoke - if you run the engine and it is a bearing you will spread shrapnel throughout the engine and any where the oil goes, tank, cooler, lines, thermostat.
I lost my first engine!! a few years ago - 100% maintained by OPC - and on Mobil 1.
Cruising on the M! back to Stratstones in Wilmslow for a 12k service - no warning and it sounded like a tensioner letting go - or a cupple of rockers broken.
It turned out to be 2nd main breaking up.
I had a subsequent incident on engine no2 which resulted in a strip down for top damage - checking the bottom end we found no2 wearing!
Its seems there is an issue with the oil squirters sticking open and causing occasional drop in oil pressure and wear to the main bearing - no warning.
You have good people in Cheshire - Allan Dyde was at Stratstones and managed my work - he is now with Phil Hindley in Warrington
Dont run the engine - get it into your preferred shop and sweat, I dont like the sound of it !
Look at the Jan issue of Porsche 911 World - you have the saga of my TBK 373

Apologies to John and everybody who given such good insights and advice.
- my contribution total bollocks - only just picked up the thread and had not read what went before.
but after my own experience does not make me feel better !
Any one any conclusions on oil
- dump the 0 - 40, back to semi ??

John - any smoke - a bearing would bring smoke - if you run the engine and it is a bearing you will spread shrapnel throughout the engine and any where the oil goes, tank, cooler, lines, thermostat.
I lost my first engine!! a few years ago - 100% maintained by OPC - and on Mobil 1.
Cruising on the M! back to Stratstones in Wilmslow for a 12k service - no warning and it sounded like a tensioner letting go - or a cupple of rockers broken.
It turned out to be 2nd main breaking up.
I had a subsequent incident on engine no2 which resulted in a strip down for top damage - checking the bottom end we found no2 wearing!
Its seems there is an issue with the oil squirters sticking open and causing occasional drop in oil pressure and wear to the main bearing - no warning.
You have good people in Cheshire - Allan Dyde was at Stratstones and managed my work - he is now with Phil Hindley in Warrington
Dont run the engine - get it into your preferred shop and sweat, I dont like the sound of it !
Look at the Jan issue of Porsche 911 World - you have the saga of my TBK 373

What year was your car again Rodders?

With all of the spun bearing stories, I've been wondering if there would be any warning by way of a fault code showing that the squirters have stuck in the open position. I don't see how it would trip a warning light unless the oil pressure dropped below acceptable range. Would a "hammer" reading then show that the oil squirters are malfunctioning?

Is there ANY way to know if the squirters are functioning properly short of bearing damage?

Hi, all.

The only update is 'nothing happening'. 9M say the engine should reach its turn for rebuild next week. I'm going to start pushing them a bit from Monday. As it is now, I don't think I'll ever know what became of that locking pin...

"Is there ANY way to know if the squirters are functioning properly short of bearing damage?"
Maybe if you had a set up like this. But I do not know for sure .
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-forum/250062-racecar-project-gauge-cluster.html

Keep up with *what* exactly.....;)

John....good luck with 'pushing' 9M on *any*thing....:)

Christer,

The Roadmeister, as JB is known, is mighty quick!! (Wikkid911 isn't too shabby either)

Now it seems that over 400 hp isn't enough - Colin has convinced me i need new headers, a hybrid turbo and some other things i've banished to the back of my memory banks. All i remember is the £££££'s and the date being around April with the car needed for "a few weeks". Any salt pinches required on the timings?? :D

Not a problem as long as you remove the tax, send off a SORN and cancel your insurance :D :D :D I'll give you Colins mobile number, you might be able to get hold of him then (only kidding Colin :D )
078...................................... Second thoughts,when your cars been in there a couple of months and you're getting desparate we'll negotiate a figure :evilgrin:

So basically, give JB your car and no one will ever see him again?:)

Let's try it... :)

I don't know about you guys but if it were my engine and I was spending "those kinds of denaro$" I'd wana know what caused the valves to contact the pistons before buttoning it up! I don't know 9M personally but from what I read they sound very competant - surley they can give you some explanation as to why this happened or else give you a pretty good guarantee it won't happen too soon after they give it back!

Just a thought
Bill
90C2

kris - I bought the car new in Oct 1989 - lost the engine at 120,000 miles - 2nd main bearing broke up - shrapnel through-out !
Replace with a 28,000 mile engine - full history from PBG - damaged this engine through a medical mishap - I overrevved, stationary in neutral
( fainted thro a flu virus and sever dehydaration - a diet of Boddingtons and Expresso !! )
The wear to the 2nd main was found on routine inspection when the engine was striped down.
No prior warning - engine has done 50,000 miles on semi synthetic
first engine was on mobile 1
Have I just been sitting under the seagull crapper or what !!
Maybe it is the Cheshire air - the first engine was rebuilt in Wilmslow and the second came from Douglas valley - the first engine was perfect other than the bearing !
same with the second
Some one some where must have an idea other than bird **** !!

Tx Rodders. I hope you used up all of your bad luck on your car. Nice to see that you're still a die-hard fan after all of this. Good luck.

kris - if you want a sign of my real dedication i will post a pic of my wife's 1974 viper green Sporto !
with a 3.0 engine it goes like a dead duck - and makes the 964 seem positively state of art - which i of course it is !
I have conquered the intricacies of gear stick micro switches and air con in 1974 was a bit special - the pain and problem solving probably has equipped me to run a small country !
With a green sporto you need more than luck

Indycam asks the question - but before an answer comes I am going back to semi synthetic - any strong recommendations - without prejudice - of course !!!!
I am also going to 6 month oil changes - over reaction ?

Hey guys, thanks for the global understanding of the current 9m workload. Unfortunately we have 2 full time engine builders Mark & Paul, and between them they have despatched four complete 911 engine rebuilds and three stripdowns in January alone, so it is most unfortunate that JB's engine mashap fell into our busiest engine build period ever, but we will be doing our best to accomodate his unforseen extra work. So I'm asking you to please (ok pretty please) give us a break, good technicians don't grow on trees and the ones we have can only do one job at a time. That said I am looking for another good guy if anyone is interested, but until then we can only do our best, ok?:D:D


To compound the problem I came in this morning to find both Paul & Mark awol with a dose of the lurgy and Robin having a day off, so what do I do? I get our remaining young technician Neil to drop everything else to strip down and clean JB's head assemblies in preparation for Mark to start the rebuild next week. You see I do care after all.

As for the ultimate cause of the failure, my guess is that a foreign body got between the chain and the intermediate shaft sprocket to cause the chain to slip a tooth, and it was the valve stopping on the piston that shock loaded the drivetrain and spit the pin out from the vernier sprocket.

The engine is down to the case and is absolutely fine (no bearing problems, no ring problems) apart from the obvious oil leaks from the old style barrel/head joints. The decision to make is should the engine go back together with the old barrels or not? I could do with you calling in next week John to look over all the parts and go through your options, then we'll have it back together pretty soon after, let me know when you can make it.

By the way, I have not avoided updating everyone on Rennlist - I was locked out following a discussion of our billet heads on the 993 forum and had to wait for sponsorship clearance which has taken nearly 5 weeks. The good news is that I can now talk about anything I like, which is cool. :D

Glad your back !
Whats lurgy ?
Whats the pin look like ? Photo of pin ?

Hi Indycam,

As Colin is probably resting after a busy sounding week I can cover lurgy which is an English word for a crappy cold, typically involving flu like symptoms. He can cover the technical stuff. ;-)

Cheers,

David

I'll give you a call on Monday afternoon, Colin, to arrange discussions, etc.

Oh, and thanks - don't get the idea that a bit of natter over a few drinks on here (where ARE the drinks, anyway?) means we think you're just twiddling your thimbs... ;)

Perhaps Rodders but better safe than sorry. Looking forward to see the viper green darling.

Some news...

Robin at 9M has sent my heads for facing/skimming which will take a day or two and then the rebirth will begin.

John will you be the first?

badass 964 motor

c

If JB is happy to put an extra zero on the end of his estimate I can slot his big bore rebuild in at number 4 in the list, no problem!

An extra zero, you mean....there's more than 1????

:-)


kevin

An extra zero... Blimey! We could be talking dozens of pounds here if I'm not lucky.

Any news? Did you provide Colin with an extra zero? :icon501:

Cheers,

JW

No extra zeros.

I was in there yesterday, but too busy doing something else to enquire!

Mind you, my car has now migrated to the side of the workshop immediately adjacent to the engine building area, so I'm taking that as good news...

I DO know that the bottom end is now rebuilt and, as of a day or two ago, it was just waiting for the heads and barrels to come back from being faced.

So it's coming along. I think.

I know Colin's away this week, (Break a leg, Colin! :D), so I doubt he'll be posting on here.

Well they say ignorance is bliss.............that's the long stay bay :roflmao:
My 993 went in a current model, when it came out it was eligible for a classic car policy :D

No - that's where it WAS...

BTW, did you get that PM?

John

Are they replacing the chains and/or sprockets (or possibly the chain tensioners) - which they "guessed" was the cause of the problem?

Just wondering
Bill
90C2

JB,
You have PM

Sorry, all - been a bit tardy with the update.

I have had my car back for a few days, now. I must say, all seems great post-rebuild. Relevant chains/spockets replaced.

Sorry for the short post - a bit tied up today.

Excellent news, John.

So, when's the next Rennlist North Wales run? :burnout:
I have a standby ferry ticket that's waiting for me to designate a crossing date :rockon:

Cheers,

JW

I'll PM you, JW, to fix a date.

I must have missed this. Great news for you JB. Does it feel any different post rebuild?

I can tell it's 'new' and tight but, other than that (I'm very pleased to say) it's my old friend back to his normal self.

Actually, that's not quite true - Paula says she hears some noises that are a bit different - my hearing's too dodgy to notice.

Oh and another thing - there are no oil leaks anymore. :)