dfinnegan

This evening several "idiot" lights lit up on my car while driving at a moderate speed.

As I recall the lights included:

- Master Alarm
- Low Fuel
- Low Washer
- Check Engine
- ABS
- Brake Press/Fluid Warning
- Oil Press
- Check Engine
- Park Brake
- Spoiler Warning
- Check Fan Belt
- Buzzer (like a loud blinker)

Of course, I can't be certain that this is the correct set as there were so many lit.

After a restart the "idiot" lights went out normally. On the two mile drive home the check engine light lit up for less than a second, 3 or 4 times. Each time the car hesitated and then recovered as soon as the light went out.

The car stalled at a stop sign.

The car idled in the driveway upon my return home, but only just.


Some History

Yesterday I changed the distributor belt on the car. On the test drive the car ran very well with the exception of a single instance of the "idiot" lights coming on briefly. There were several lights, but I can't say which ones.

When changing the distributor belt I inadvertently got some filings from the gear retaining pin, which I drilled out, into the lower shaft bearing. I cleaned out the bearing with Carb Cleaner and greased it with a pinky of grease. Perhaps this was a mistake. I didn't think about this bearing being within the engine oil environment. If it is I don't expect the grease will flow well through the engine block. I hope this isn't an issue!

I also noticed that the electrical connector for the fan belt sensor was loose fitting. It is connected securely, but wiggles more than I would have expected.

Finally, I ran very close to redline several times last night after I changed the distributor belt. This was done only after the car was fully warmed up and the circulation valved opened. The car ran fine this morning.

Which way do I turn?

Dave

JasonAndreas

Check your ignition wires for loose connectors and worn shielding. What you're experiencing is better known as the "christmas tree" effect.

dfinnegan

Jason,

I will check. Definitely.

A couple of questions:

I do not have a "proper" tool for removing the wires and found them a bit difficult to pull off. I ended up using a pair of channel lock pliers to "grip" the leads in order to pull them off the distributor caps. I was careful not to "squeeze" the boots for fear that I'd damage something, but was unable to pull them off by hand and so resorted to a tool.

Do you suppose I damaged one, or more, of the boot connectors?

I am quite sure that I seated the boots on the caps very well. I felt each "click" into place. So, I don't think they are not connected.

Is this the situation where I should be spraying a mist of water over the wires to see if they are sparking?

Thanks,
Dave

bhensarl

Hi Dave,
I, like you, once used a pair of channel locks to remove my spark plug wires from the distributors, but I would highly suggest that you get the right tool for the job. If you check into how much a set of replacement wires will cost you, I think you'll see that it makes sense (cents) to get the right tool for the job. At your local auto parts store they sell a little plastic tool for about $3 that fits right over the boots so that you can remove them without destroying anything in the process. Good luck with your "christmas lights"! Tis the season...
Brian

dfinnegan

Well, I've checked the wires in the dark. No sparks either with, or without, the headlights on. Though, the headlights were on earlier this evening when the problem occured. They were also on last night during my after-distributor-work test drive.

Are the wires sensitive to the path they run?

I put all the wires back on the caps in the order they came off and even made sure the wires ran the same paths through and over the caps. However, I did not check the path upstream from the caps up toward the plugs.

It's possible that some of the wires are twisted together where before they were not.

Could that be a problem?

Also, if I can not diagnose this problem in the next couple of days am I safe to drive the car?

Is it simply a matter of pulling over and restarting to clear the issue and then drive on?

Or, am I doing damage each time the christmas tree effect is seem?

Thanks,
Dave

dfinnegan

Is there any way to test the wires? (aside from the sparc test w/ water spray)

Is there any way to test the boots that attach to the distributor caps?

Can I replace just the boots?

It appears that the wires are in good shape, but I may have caused some damage to the boot(s) which attach to the distributor caps.

Thanks,
Dave

darth

A little dielectric grease on the connectors will help if there is any arcing going on under the boots and it'll make it easier to take off the next time.

Hope this helps
Bill
90C2

jimq

check to see if the connectors to the coils didnt get loose when you were messing with the wires. Check your ground straps.

brookewebb

This problem may be entirely unrelated. It could be purely coincidence that you were fiddling with the caps and the next day something goes wrong. I got the xmas tree effect from a bad tank of petrol causing the engine to stall on low revs or when at a stop sign. The tank was 3/4 empty so I just topped it up with 97 ron and all was fine.

Hope yours is as simple as that!

dfinnegan

darth, how does arcing occur "under the boots"? Could I have caused this condition by using an inappropriate tool (channel lock pliers) to remove the boots? If so, could/should dielectric grease solve this sort of problem?

Also, can I "repair" the boots?

Can I replace the boots and not the wires?

jimq, by "check your ground straps" do you mean those up front in the boot off the battery? I did check these about a week, or so, ago. I removed all of the connections to the battery and the ground strap to the body and cleaned up (sanded) all of the connectors and cleaned the battery posts.

If there are other "ground straps" that I should check please advise.

Thanks,
Dave

Wachuko

If you replaced the distributor belt I hope you did so and validated position of the distributors at TDC. If all that was done then you could have something as simple as a bad DME Relay.

I would start by making sure your battery is fully charged and replace the DME Relay.

You mentioned changing the distributor belt... when was the last time you changed the distributor caps and rotors?

Keep us posted.

dfinnegan

Wachuko, Thanks for the input.

I did validate TDC. I rotated to Z1 TDC on the #1 cylinder before removing the distributors. I then made careful marks of where the primary rotor was pointing (slightly left of the #1 TDC mark on the distributor housing) and again when the distributor came out (another mark a bit more left). Everything went back together and ligned up exactly as it had been.

I also replaced the rotors and caps at the same time.

I will try the DME replacement.

I suspect that I have damaged the boots upon removal, or brought about plug wire damage.

I've looked back through the records for the car. I can see that the plugs, caps and rotors were replaced back in 2001, but I can't see where the wires were done. They "appear" to be in good shape, but I'm not sure I'm qualified to make a proper judgement on their condition.

I'll keep looking. If anyone can advise how to test the boots/wires I would appreciate it. Though, I'm concerned that there is no real test.

I did see a mention in another "christmas tree" thread regarding a "scope" diagnosis of three bad wires/boots (I forget which).

Does anyone know what is required to diagnose bad wires/boots?

I'd really rather not replace all of the wires and boots in a attempt to locate this problem.

Thanks again to all.

Cheers,
Dave

darth

By pulling the wires off with pliers you may have punctured the boot which creates a path for the hi voltage to travel from. The dielectric grease may help. If you put a metal screwdriver between the plugs while the engine is running you may see an arc - make sure you're holding on to the insulated handle. I've heard the plug ends screw on.

Hope this helps
Bull
90C2

dfinnegan

Bull,

I've purchased a tube of dielectric. Do I simply squirt some into the boot?

Should it be just a small amount?

would it help to put some on the outside of the boots?

Thanks

dfinnegan

More Data

I went for another test ride this afternoon.

I drove about five to ten miles to get the car warmed up. No issues. I did get the car warmed up to 8 o'clock then back down when oil began ciruculating through the thermostat.

I then turned around to come back home, but first turned on the radio and the headlights. Within a couple of miles I got a couple of idiot lights to come one. This time it was just the Parking Brake light, Brake pressure/Brake fluid light, the Interlock warning and the low washer warning. The washer warning light flashed on, then off again, then on and off sort of randomly. Plus the master alarm light, but no horn.

The car ran fine with the lights on and I drove the rest of the way home.

I also noticed that I had a popping sound in the speakers when the radio was on. Serveral pops per second. Maybe four, or six.

When I got home I opened the rear lid and took a good hard look around, but could see nothing. It was daylight.

I'll add some dielectric a little later on and try things out again.

As usual, I have myself convinced that I know what's wrong. I know that I shouldn't do this, but I can't help it. I touched the wires with pliers and shouldn't have and believe that I've damaged a boot or wire. I sure would like to know if there is some way of testing the wires and boots. Anyone know if this is possible?

There is a reference here: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ighlight=scope

That reads: "I had threee plug wires ends that went bad/got damaged during a rebuild. I was told they used a scope to find this problem. Not sure what ascope is or if you have access to one. They replaced my plug wires and my car is totally normal again."

Anyone know about this use of a scope to test the wires?

Thanks again,
Dave