BUYING A USED PORSCHE 911/964. ONE WAY TO CONTROL THE ODOMETER'S MILEAGE READOUT!
11-18-2005, 03:39 AM
#1
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BUYING A USED PORSCHE 911/964. ONE WAY TO CONTROL THE ODOMETER'S MILEAGE READOUT!
Something to control when buying a used Porsche 911/964...This control was done for me at, Porsche Zentrum, Garmisch-Partenkirchen, located in the Bavarian Alps, Germany. Before paying in full to a private seller, I had my 911/964 checked and all service books and readouts controlled, one of the many controls was the following... Remove the speedometer/odometer assembly from the dashboard by getting access to it from the trunk and then, dismantle all the hardware holding it in place. Then, unclip the leads and cables and, slip it out from the dashboard's front and,. PRESTO!! THE TRUE HISTORY!! Control the matching numbers of VDO, and Porsche AG., as is shown... The installation dates of Porsche AG., and, the engraved serial numbers of VDO, appear as shown on the back, easy to read, it’s like an author's name to a book, it's printed and clear. You can see the part’s number which indicates also, when stocked, the protected green plastic sealed calibrating screw heads and the green plastic stamped seal with the number, "1580" and next to it, "3.91". These are the coded numbers and, the date of production, in this case March, 1991. Porsche and VDO, protect the heritage and pedigree of the name "Porsche", this way. It helps us against fraud!! At Zuffenhausen, this recorded info is available to, Official Porsche Garages only and, not to every gas station on the block. All too often this assembly is changed for a new or slightly used assembly and like magic. Presto, 000,000.0 or, whatever's calibrated on to the odometer readout. It's worth checking before paying lots more money, for something that in fact isn’t a, low mileage Porsche, that has cost more!! Ask an Official Porsche Garage to help you, it's worth the effort, and cost now, and not later, when it's too late..For the most part Porsche owners, sellers and dealers are honest but, there have been exceptions... "HOPE I HELPED A FEW, SOON TO BE, PORSCHE BRETHERN, YOU’LL LOVE YOUR PORSCHE!!". Right guys ?.This is my contribution to, PORSCHE 911/964 PASSION!! I can offer more advice to those that ask everyday what they should buy, or how much to spend, don't be shy. I should be able to help you in your search of a Porsche 911, air-cooled only though, they are the only Porsche that I know, and recommend, some still exist today, but hurry up!!
PLEASE, post a reply so that this thread does not end-up in the oblivions of this forum. Its goal is to help the, Porsche 911/964 used car prospect in the search of, His or Her, DREAM PORSCHE 911/964, SPORTS CAR !! "Help if you can, tell the forum what's happened to you or someone else !!"
PS... Mine was the original, you can see the numbers, protected green seals and was in fact, reading 78,000 klms (46,800 miles),.. The hour's labour of, $20.00 was worth it, I paid in full for my 911/964 10 min. after this readout was confirmed and, 4 years later, I still giggle, as I write. That was best money I've ever spent, for the best, "REAL SPORTSCAR", that, I've ever owned!!
PSS... It's not for sale,. Never!!
I do not take responsibility for any mishaps; I’m only an amateur posting a new thread to help those that, know even less then me...
Last edited by MARC A. 964 C4; 11-21-2005 at 12:34 AM.
11-20-2005, 02:28 AM
#2
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Please excuse me for having posted a reply to myself. I’m sure on the, rennlist.com forum, that’s not the procedure, and it shows bad internet etiquette. "I will not do it again!!" I continue to see so many would be Porsche 911/964 used car prospects asking for advice, on how much to spend, and what do "YOU THINKS", that I initially posted my thread to help those in need. Not one reply has been posted, and I’m offering many years experience plus this HELPFUL HINT, in what to do or one more "maybe", to look for. My logic is this:PLEASE, post a reply so that this thread does not end-up in the oblivions of this forum. Its goal is to help the, Porsche 911/964 used car prospect in the search of, His or Her, DREAM PORSCHE 911/964, SPORTS CAR !! Please tolerate my Porsche Passion, and excuse me for my persistence. Marc A.
PS. I re-edited the text for easier reading,....
PS. I re-edited the text for easier reading,....
11-20-2005, 10:13 AM
#4
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avorkinn, yes there are, but this is one that, not so many people are aware of, did YOU know this form of truth finding before, if your insight is better, make the effort to help those that know less then then you or even me. BTW I used to sell in NYC, for over ten years, BMW, VW and Porsche in the 60's and 70's before leaving for Europe, but never was I informed of this detail,.. Help the used Porsche 911/964 buyer, what else besides the basics can you provide, I for one would love to learn, even at 58 ! Thanks for writing, that's the most important thing!.... Marc
11-20-2005, 11:52 AM
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Burning Brakes
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Well, although my budget would not allow it, I was this close to making a deal on a 95 993 last year. The car drove wonderfully and was outwardly immaculate. It was a low milage car at a very resonable price, and a local at that. I was very intheusiastic, and found myself getting overly excited about my find. So much so, that for an intire 15-20 mins I had lost myself and completely ignored the signs.
What signs?
Worn:
pedal pads
steerwheel leather
shifter ****
door seal (where ones foot drags across it)
wiper streaks
For a car with the milage that the owner was implying that this one had, it should have had very little to no ware on these items. Unless, he was pretending to drive it... ALOT.
Anyways, when I started to come around, these tell tale signs became more and more obvious to me. Upon closer inspection to the interior I noticed serveral small scratches around the speedo bezel. At first I thougt NAHH, but then it IS a big purchase, and something just did not feel right.
I never actually did anything to check, but my suspicions were enough to detour me.
Eventhough it was a good deal, it just wasn't for me.
Duncan
What signs?
Worn:
pedal pads
steerwheel leather
shifter ****
door seal (where ones foot drags across it)
wiper streaks
For a car with the milage that the owner was implying that this one had, it should have had very little to no ware on these items. Unless, he was pretending to drive it... ALOT.
Anyways, when I started to come around, these tell tale signs became more and more obvious to me. Upon closer inspection to the interior I noticed serveral small scratches around the speedo bezel. At first I thougt NAHH, but then it IS a big purchase, and something just did not feel right.
I never actually did anything to check, but my suspicions were enough to detour me.
Eventhough it was a good deal, it just wasn't for me.
Duncan
11-20-2005, 12:45 PM
#6
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Duncan, thanks man, that is exactly my point proven by someone in the USA and, it’s not that I want "smart guy of the year awards" but, unfortunately where’s there’s Porsche, there’s money and where there’s money, there’s always going to be someone that wants more then he’s actually entitled to.. Mind you, isn’t that the way life in general seems to be today ? And because of that commercial cannibalism, I for one, am and, always have tried to at least protect my long life passion,..The automobile,.. Given the opportunity of being lucky enough to own the ignition keys to one of best, a Porsche 911/964, I feel it entitles me to defend myself and, maybe help a stranger in need of guidance. What happened to you is an everyday occurrence in Europe, sad but true. All that you said is true and the screw driver scratches should be added to what I tried to point out. Thanks for posting, I only wish the guys asking for advice would read a bit more and maybe they too would become better qualified in their eternal search for, THE BEST PORSCHE TO BUY,.. All the best, Marc.PS how’s the work going ?....
11-20-2005, 01:45 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
I have personally known people 
who disconnect the speedo and only know how fast they're going by using a little stickynote table, stuck to the speedometer face, with engine speed and road speed correlated. And the strange thing is, they seem like regular folks otherwise. A good tip to keep in mind. (Not a risk in my car - early build '90, 210k km...and it looks slightly better than that would imply! 
)
who disconnect the speedo and only know how fast they're going by using a little stickynote table, stuck to the speedometer face, with engine speed and road speed correlated. And the strange thing is, they seem like regular folks otherwise. A good tip to keep in mind. (Not a risk in my car - early build '90, 210k km...and it looks slightly better than that would imply! )
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12-01-2005, 01:53 AM
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Sorry to repost my original thread, but everyday, would-be Porsche buyers are asking questions on what to buy, how much to spend, which model is the best, and if we, the members, think it’s a good price!!.. One Man asked and spoke about his "Dream-Car", with everything having been redone including, a new clutch installation at 33,000 miles. What??.. I wrote this humble man and gave my best assessment of his description. More and more I see or read about, hard to believe odometer readouts,.. "NOW THAT!!".. I can give advice on!!.. Add to this thread for them, help those folks a little, I think we should be able to compile a pretty good, "ROAD TO FOLLOW", on the basics of buying a used Porsche 911/964, we all have a, "WHAT TO LOOK OUT FOR", to tell,. I came to this platform myself almost four years ago, you all helped me, I’m a little bit late, but, "THANKS", it served me well that advice, my car is a testimonial to your assistance, better late than never...
Marc Agnew.
Marc Agnew.
12-01-2005, 04:16 AM
#9
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Some counter points for this removing speedos, and checking rear date stamps advice.
I understand the right of people to post what they want on these forums and if people wish to follow such advice that is their right also.
My counter points:
1/. I used to do a lot of PPIs and there is now way in hell that sellers will allow Speedos to be pulled out. The Speedo on the 964 is an integral part of a number of systems including the rear spoiler and ABS. There is a chance when the speedo is removed of causing a system failure and damage to the trim of the dash if it is not done correctly.
I strongly recommend that any potential seller here ignore such a request.
2/. There are a number of legitimate circumstances that require a speedo change.
These include, but are not limited to:
964s (and all other Porsches) that have visited Porsche Exclusiv for the upper level modifications.
964s that have been converted to RHD.
964s that have been taken from one country to another that require a different speedo. Like a LHD car in the UK.
964s that have had the OBC modification fitted post purchase.
964s that have had a speedo failure.
964s that have had post purchase interior upgrades.
964s that have been sent back to Werk 1 for modification.
3/. There are MANY legitimate low mileage 964s in the market place. There are still a number around with less than a thousand miles on the clock.
4/. There are MANY other ways to inspect the 964 which would show the mileage on the clock may not be genuine.
I caution anyone against interfering with major system components or asking owners to do so. I will be honest and say I have never in my life heard of people advising others to pull Speedos out of cars in order to try and confirm the mileage.
If you feel this is necessary, then you should have walked away a long time ago.
If anyone asked me to remove the Speedo to prove the mileage I would ask them politely to leave because they are paranoid and wasting my time.
A good crook in the used car business who does such things, is likely to go to a wreckers and find a suitable speedo replacement anyway. Around 30,000 964s were manufactured between January 1st 1990 and December 31st 1990 meaning there are plenty of the correct date stamped speedos out there to be used for a deception.
If people attempt to wind a 964 speedo back the odometer digits will be out of alignment.
Oh one last issue. You cannot disconnect the speedo on a 964 and not impact other systems.
If you remove the input from the Speedo on an 89/90 model the rear spoiler and the fresh air system won't work.
If you remove the input from a 91 and up model the ABS, rear spoiler and fresh air system won't work. If you have a Tip it gets worse and of course if you have an OBC that won't work properly either.
Ciao,
Adrian.
I understand the right of people to post what they want on these forums and if people wish to follow such advice that is their right also.
My counter points:
1/. I used to do a lot of PPIs and there is now way in hell that sellers will allow Speedos to be pulled out. The Speedo on the 964 is an integral part of a number of systems including the rear spoiler and ABS. There is a chance when the speedo is removed of causing a system failure and damage to the trim of the dash if it is not done correctly.
I strongly recommend that any potential seller here ignore such a request.
2/. There are a number of legitimate circumstances that require a speedo change.
These include, but are not limited to:
964s (and all other Porsches) that have visited Porsche Exclusiv for the upper level modifications.
964s that have been converted to RHD.
964s that have been taken from one country to another that require a different speedo. Like a LHD car in the UK.
964s that have had the OBC modification fitted post purchase.
964s that have had a speedo failure.
964s that have had post purchase interior upgrades.
964s that have been sent back to Werk 1 for modification.
3/. There are MANY legitimate low mileage 964s in the market place. There are still a number around with less than a thousand miles on the clock.
4/. There are MANY other ways to inspect the 964 which would show the mileage on the clock may not be genuine.
I caution anyone against interfering with major system components or asking owners to do so. I will be honest and say I have never in my life heard of people advising others to pull Speedos out of cars in order to try and confirm the mileage.
If you feel this is necessary, then you should have walked away a long time ago.
If anyone asked me to remove the Speedo to prove the mileage I would ask them politely to leave because they are paranoid and wasting my time.
A good crook in the used car business who does such things, is likely to go to a wreckers and find a suitable speedo replacement anyway. Around 30,000 964s were manufactured between January 1st 1990 and December 31st 1990 meaning there are plenty of the correct date stamped speedos out there to be used for a deception.
If people attempt to wind a 964 speedo back the odometer digits will be out of alignment.
Oh one last issue. You cannot disconnect the speedo on a 964 and not impact other systems.
If you remove the input from the Speedo on an 89/90 model the rear spoiler and the fresh air system won't work.
If you remove the input from a 91 and up model the ABS, rear spoiler and fresh air system won't work. If you have a Tip it gets worse and of course if you have an OBC that won't work properly either.
Ciao,
Adrian.
12-01-2005, 09:28 AM
#10
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Hello Adrian, after a beautiful Sunny December One, a walk through the local park, seeing the Alps covered in white, the blue sky, I was both humbled and surprised by your rebuttal to my advice, passed on as an amateur to those, that I thought were in need of some basic assistance. Perhaps like you, I offer my passion to strangers for free. In every thread or post including this re-rebuttal to you, I always tell of my experiences and pass my limited knowledge in the form of words. My closing remarks are diplomatic and are never meant to mislead the reader. A grain of sand on the Ocean’s bed is worth more then my words of any wisdom. I am, sad to say not a professional writer like yourself, the best testimonial to that is your Porsche 911/964, White Guide is one metre away from my desk, and sitting on top.
I live in Mougins France, perhaps you know it? This will give you some background on where,why and, how I came to my conclusions. After visiting the local garages dealing in used Porsche sales, the amount of stories told, would have enabled an author to write a best-seller! What I saw was the aged old premise that, sad to say, unfortunates the realities of today. Where there’s Porsche, there’s money, and where there’s money, there’s always someone that wants a bit more for the taking. And God, created Man... Some are honest and some are not... My years in automobile retail in New York City, plus that of my Father’s automobile retail education throughout my youth, gave me a pretty good base to formulate my impressions from. If you are of the same school, please do not tell me that you never witnessed, some used car dishonesty at its best? The used Porsches 911/3.2, 964’s, that I saw near by, were each a mystery in its own right. Accidents, some very severe, but thanks to an overnight coat of mastic, some fresh paint, once again for sale, and sparkling like new! Service Books, records, receipts, non existent. Ownerships multiplied, to the very many, each owner changing equipment as he saw fit,. Ask a question relating to mechanics, forget it, absolutely ***- about- tit!! Sometimes I really could not believe the answers given to serious questions! I won’t even speak about test drives, I think you can imagine, based on what I’ve said already. But the best is the amount of ex-USA models that are now appearing in certain showrooms. Imagine an ex-USA model for sale in France, the odometer now in kilometres instead of the original miles read out. I witnessed several fitting this description, some with 10,000 klm, some more, some less, but the answers were always the same when confronted. Complete innocence personified!! Perhaps you know what buying a used Porsche all is about in this part of Europe, it’s no different in Switzerland, in spite of what you may think? And the distorted rule of thumb prevails,. The smaller the odometer readout the more you pay, that’s pretty much World wide!! Here the prices were anything from, 25,000-50,000 Euros! I gave up in my search, and purchased, sight unseen my Porsche 911/964, of today via internet in Bavaria and very soon there after I entered the hospital.
(A copy for you)..I approach my fourth year with this, Porsche 911/964, I purchased this car as my "Last Wish" as my health at 54 took a turn for the worst. My first Colon Coloscopy revealed two polyps that were near perforation and too large for local removal. Large equals malignant growth and so on. More tests more scans gave me the bad news, I required surgery ASAP and malignant polyps pointed in the direction of, cancer. I was cut, repaired and put back together, my stay in the hospital was hell personified many were not as fortunate as me to leave,.. What kept me going was this "OLD PORSCHE 911, CARRERA 4 964 IN WHITE/NAVY BLUE THAT I HAD PURCHASED SIGHT UNSEEN IN BAVARIA FOR THE PRICE OF A USED VW GOLF",..For over a week in the after/operation ward all I did was stare at six Internet photos from "SCOUT 24 DE." of a car in some storage garage in Bavaria, being sold by someone who represented the owneress. (On and on and on and on),..I healed and was saved by Doctors now Friends. My purchase continued, I am the second owner and, in a way my 911/964 became my BEST FRIEND FOR LIFE,....
My details are very briefly written in this thread explaining what this authorized Porsche Zentrum Garage did for me. The odometer was removed, shown to me, and reinstalled by a mortal man with Porsche mechanical training, please do not put him into question. I was so impressed I recorded that moment in time with a photograph. Never did I ask for this removal, but when the legitimacy of the odometer was confirmed by this action, the purchase was completed! Adrian, there are ways to dismantle Porsche odometers, and where there’s a will, there’s a way.. I hope my Friend remains an honest Porsche Employee, and I know he will!!.. But my one question is this, why is it so easy to purchase odometers through the advertising pages of magazines or, the Porsche spare part outlets that offer anything for any model, I will not mention magazines or outlets by name, but here in Europe, someone is installing this new merchandize, my eyes bare witness to this form of thievery!!. I was initially informed of this practise of cheat by a Porsche Expert, professional purchaser offering advice on Internet. My Porsche 911/964 was re-controlled when I had a, "Rapport D’Expertise" completed not so long ago for the many obvious reasons, my Porsche 911/964 has a, Filed Dossier in France. The odomtre read out was very important to arrive at its real value.
I’ve written to you many times, I’ve offered my condolences, it’s great to know you have such enthusiasm and passion, and if everyone offered help and advice, as you have, maybe buying a used Porsche would be easier. Adrian, as a member of rennlist.com, and a follower of my own will, I am very out spoken, but as a, Lover of Porsche 911/964, I’m only here to offer my options. I write my own words and give my thoughts. I always say in my last words, go to the Authorized Porsche Garages for this option, and ask for their assistance...
Keep up the good work and I’m waiting for your write ups to continue.. I am a fan of your writings and appreciate your efforts and your guidance...
Happy Holidays, good driving and writing and all the best...
Marc Agnew.
PS. I wish for Xmas the, How to type faster fingers!
Dec.3/05.....48 hours later,. I thought for sure you would at least read my answer/rebuttal to your verbal correction. My words were true! I have no bested interests at heart to write lies or deceive. There’s a December Porsche magazine that speaks about the dishonesty of odometer manipulations or clocking. I found a downloaded article that specifically warns against clocking. And contrary to you, if I would be selling my Porsche and asking 40,000 Euro, it’s value (Expert’s Value) to a private party and the last detail was to confirm the odometer read out, now at 85,000 klms, and if asked to prove it, over and above the obvious....I would not hesitate in allowing a,. PORSCHE REGISTERED GARAGE, to remove and confirm the originality of my odometer/speedometer,. That would be the verification of its authentic, original equipment! Perhaps contrary to you I have nothing against an honest man in search of the truth!
Your reasons given, for the acceptances of odometer removal and replacement such as interior work or faults, or new country regulations and perhaps the best of the lot...... "A good crook in the used car business who does such things, is likely to go to a wreckers and find a suitable Speedo replacement anyway".. This is a complete contradiction to what you wrote. Do you know people who actually do this, because this is exactly what my thread was intended to do! Adrian, welcome to the,. REAL WORLD OF USED CAR BUYING,. This form of fraud has been going on since the odometer was invented and this soon to be year, 2006 has not seen too many radical improvements in Man, where there’s money there’s always going to be a crook, or a dishonest used Porsche seller, and you know what,.. THEY CAN LIE WITH A SMILE AND TELL YOU ANYTHING, IT'S ALL PART OF A DAY'S WORK....
I meant well, I invested time in creating this thread,..You downgraded this thread. As your words are held in high esteem, members listen and follow your recommendations, as I do. You put my integrity and that of a Porsche Registered Garage, and a young mechanic, in to disrepute. These groups of men were offering to go that extra yard to help me when I was in need of help. I’ll say it again,.. "That is a real picture and that work was performed in Bavaria, and my Porsche was on the road very soon there after!"
Please answer it’s what a gentleman should do. It perhaps may help the soon to be new members to our Porsche Family, to be aware of perhaps one more detail, offer them help instead of voicing your disbelief in what I wrote.
My wife reminded me of a detail that I forgot to write,....During our search, one of the Porsche’s odometers, that was in a showroom in Le Cannet/Cannes, was off centre by 10 degrees, I questioned, and was told that the ex owner was able to," read better that way",. The price for this,. LIKE NEW, LOW ODOMETRE READING......1990 911/964 Cab., 23,000klms = 42,000 Euros (+-$50,000),. yeah sure,...
Marc Agnew.
DEC.04/05.....72 Hrs. later
In one of my European Porsche Magazines, in the commercial section where used Porsches, wheels, seats and general just about anything’s are for sale, there’s an advertisement accompanied by a, 1 X 2 inch photograph of the various 911, 944, 964 speedometer / odometer housing blocks or units. And with the gorgeous detailed quality, I can read clearly on the 300 klh model, and 48,000 klm on the clock, and along side of it, a 240 klh model, and 13,000 klm on the clock. If it’s really so difficult, then who’s installing these blocks world wide, and for what reason,.. Must be a lot of interior upgrades this winter!!.. But what caught my eye, this particular time, was that this, hard working honest reputable cell phone only given, offers also the replacements for the, US MODELS!!!!! And clearly it spells out this detail, it was translated by my wife, fluent in French, German and English, to me the error prone, American,..
I stand by my words,.. There is speedo/odom racketeering taking place, and we are paying more money then ever, as the much-wanted,.. REAL PORSCHE 911’s, THAT ARE NOW OBSOLITE!!.. FEWER AND FEWER EVERYDAY!!..GREATER DEMAND!!.. "AND LET’S MAKE SOME MONEY", said the honest up grader for the used Porsche 911/964, THAT UPGRADED IN ONE HOUR, AND DOUBLED THE SELLING PRICE!!....Sad world, but I’m trying to help it, or at least help the used Porsche 911 would-be purchaser!!.. And as no-one knows me,... Maybe I’m a NEW CAR salesman? ...
I live in Mougins France, perhaps you know it? This will give you some background on where,why and, how I came to my conclusions. After visiting the local garages dealing in used Porsche sales, the amount of stories told, would have enabled an author to write a best-seller! What I saw was the aged old premise that, sad to say, unfortunates the realities of today. Where there’s Porsche, there’s money, and where there’s money, there’s always someone that wants a bit more for the taking. And God, created Man... Some are honest and some are not... My years in automobile retail in New York City, plus that of my Father’s automobile retail education throughout my youth, gave me a pretty good base to formulate my impressions from. If you are of the same school, please do not tell me that you never witnessed, some used car dishonesty at its best? The used Porsches 911/3.2, 964’s, that I saw near by, were each a mystery in its own right. Accidents, some very severe, but thanks to an overnight coat of mastic, some fresh paint, once again for sale, and sparkling like new! Service Books, records, receipts, non existent. Ownerships multiplied, to the very many, each owner changing equipment as he saw fit,. Ask a question relating to mechanics, forget it, absolutely ***- about- tit!! Sometimes I really could not believe the answers given to serious questions! I won’t even speak about test drives, I think you can imagine, based on what I’ve said already. But the best is the amount of ex-USA models that are now appearing in certain showrooms. Imagine an ex-USA model for sale in France, the odometer now in kilometres instead of the original miles read out. I witnessed several fitting this description, some with 10,000 klm, some more, some less, but the answers were always the same when confronted. Complete innocence personified!! Perhaps you know what buying a used Porsche all is about in this part of Europe, it’s no different in Switzerland, in spite of what you may think? And the distorted rule of thumb prevails,. The smaller the odometer readout the more you pay, that’s pretty much World wide!! Here the prices were anything from, 25,000-50,000 Euros! I gave up in my search, and purchased, sight unseen my Porsche 911/964, of today via internet in Bavaria and very soon there after I entered the hospital.
(A copy for you)..I approach my fourth year with this, Porsche 911/964, I purchased this car as my "Last Wish" as my health at 54 took a turn for the worst. My first Colon Coloscopy revealed two polyps that were near perforation and too large for local removal. Large equals malignant growth and so on. More tests more scans gave me the bad news, I required surgery ASAP and malignant polyps pointed in the direction of, cancer. I was cut, repaired and put back together, my stay in the hospital was hell personified many were not as fortunate as me to leave,.. What kept me going was this "OLD PORSCHE 911, CARRERA 4 964 IN WHITE/NAVY BLUE THAT I HAD PURCHASED SIGHT UNSEEN IN BAVARIA FOR THE PRICE OF A USED VW GOLF",..For over a week in the after/operation ward all I did was stare at six Internet photos from "SCOUT 24 DE." of a car in some storage garage in Bavaria, being sold by someone who represented the owneress. (On and on and on and on),..I healed and was saved by Doctors now Friends. My purchase continued, I am the second owner and, in a way my 911/964 became my BEST FRIEND FOR LIFE,....
My details are very briefly written in this thread explaining what this authorized Porsche Zentrum Garage did for me. The odometer was removed, shown to me, and reinstalled by a mortal man with Porsche mechanical training, please do not put him into question. I was so impressed I recorded that moment in time with a photograph. Never did I ask for this removal, but when the legitimacy of the odometer was confirmed by this action, the purchase was completed! Adrian, there are ways to dismantle Porsche odometers, and where there’s a will, there’s a way.. I hope my Friend remains an honest Porsche Employee, and I know he will!!.. But my one question is this, why is it so easy to purchase odometers through the advertising pages of magazines or, the Porsche spare part outlets that offer anything for any model, I will not mention magazines or outlets by name, but here in Europe, someone is installing this new merchandize, my eyes bare witness to this form of thievery!!. I was initially informed of this practise of cheat by a Porsche Expert, professional purchaser offering advice on Internet. My Porsche 911/964 was re-controlled when I had a, "Rapport D’Expertise" completed not so long ago for the many obvious reasons, my Porsche 911/964 has a, Filed Dossier in France. The odomtre read out was very important to arrive at its real value.
I’ve written to you many times, I’ve offered my condolences, it’s great to know you have such enthusiasm and passion, and if everyone offered help and advice, as you have, maybe buying a used Porsche would be easier. Adrian, as a member of rennlist.com, and a follower of my own will, I am very out spoken, but as a, Lover of Porsche 911/964, I’m only here to offer my options. I write my own words and give my thoughts. I always say in my last words, go to the Authorized Porsche Garages for this option, and ask for their assistance...
Keep up the good work and I’m waiting for your write ups to continue.. I am a fan of your writings and appreciate your efforts and your guidance...
Happy Holidays, good driving and writing and all the best...
Marc Agnew.
PS. I wish for Xmas the, How to type faster fingers!
Dec.3/05.....48 hours later,. I thought for sure you would at least read my answer/rebuttal to your verbal correction. My words were true! I have no bested interests at heart to write lies or deceive. There’s a December Porsche magazine that speaks about the dishonesty of odometer manipulations or clocking. I found a downloaded article that specifically warns against clocking. And contrary to you, if I would be selling my Porsche and asking 40,000 Euro, it’s value (Expert’s Value) to a private party and the last detail was to confirm the odometer read out, now at 85,000 klms, and if asked to prove it, over and above the obvious....I would not hesitate in allowing a,. PORSCHE REGISTERED GARAGE, to remove and confirm the originality of my odometer/speedometer,. That would be the verification of its authentic, original equipment! Perhaps contrary to you I have nothing against an honest man in search of the truth!
Your reasons given, for the acceptances of odometer removal and replacement such as interior work or faults, or new country regulations and perhaps the best of the lot...... "A good crook in the used car business who does such things, is likely to go to a wreckers and find a suitable Speedo replacement anyway".. This is a complete contradiction to what you wrote. Do you know people who actually do this, because this is exactly what my thread was intended to do! Adrian, welcome to the,. REAL WORLD OF USED CAR BUYING,. This form of fraud has been going on since the odometer was invented and this soon to be year, 2006 has not seen too many radical improvements in Man, where there’s money there’s always going to be a crook, or a dishonest used Porsche seller, and you know what,.. THEY CAN LIE WITH A SMILE AND TELL YOU ANYTHING, IT'S ALL PART OF A DAY'S WORK....
I meant well, I invested time in creating this thread,..You downgraded this thread. As your words are held in high esteem, members listen and follow your recommendations, as I do. You put my integrity and that of a Porsche Registered Garage, and a young mechanic, in to disrepute. These groups of men were offering to go that extra yard to help me when I was in need of help. I’ll say it again,.. "That is a real picture and that work was performed in Bavaria, and my Porsche was on the road very soon there after!"
Please answer it’s what a gentleman should do. It perhaps may help the soon to be new members to our Porsche Family, to be aware of perhaps one more detail, offer them help instead of voicing your disbelief in what I wrote.
My wife reminded me of a detail that I forgot to write,....During our search, one of the Porsche’s odometers, that was in a showroom in Le Cannet/Cannes, was off centre by 10 degrees, I questioned, and was told that the ex owner was able to," read better that way",. The price for this,. LIKE NEW, LOW ODOMETRE READING......1990 911/964 Cab., 23,000klms = 42,000 Euros (+-$50,000),. yeah sure,...
Marc Agnew.
DEC.04/05.....72 Hrs. later
In one of my European Porsche Magazines, in the commercial section where used Porsches, wheels, seats and general just about anything’s are for sale, there’s an advertisement accompanied by a, 1 X 2 inch photograph of the various 911, 944, 964 speedometer / odometer housing blocks or units. And with the gorgeous detailed quality, I can read clearly on the 300 klh model, and 48,000 klm on the clock, and along side of it, a 240 klh model, and 13,000 klm on the clock. If it’s really so difficult, then who’s installing these blocks world wide, and for what reason,.. Must be a lot of interior upgrades this winter!!.. But what caught my eye, this particular time, was that this, hard working honest reputable cell phone only given, offers also the replacements for the, US MODELS!!!!! And clearly it spells out this detail, it was translated by my wife, fluent in French, German and English, to me the error prone, American,..
I stand by my words,.. There is speedo/odom racketeering taking place, and we are paying more money then ever, as the much-wanted,.. REAL PORSCHE 911’s, THAT ARE NOW OBSOLITE!!.. FEWER AND FEWER EVERYDAY!!..GREATER DEMAND!!.. "AND LET’S MAKE SOME MONEY", said the honest up grader for the used Porsche 911/964, THAT UPGRADED IN ONE HOUR, AND DOUBLED THE SELLING PRICE!!....Sad world, but I’m trying to help it, or at least help the used Porsche 911 would-be purchaser!!.. And as no-one knows me,... Maybe I’m a NEW CAR salesman? ...
Last edited by MARC A. 964 C4; 12-04-2005 at 02:01 AM.
