Indycam

Bad running , lack of power , hard to start , hard to keep running , all things that can be ignition problems .
I might be leading you down a dead end .
But , checking the simple stuff first is a good idea .
Ignition parts go **** up all the time .
And if its does nothing for your problem , its just good to know that everythings ok with ignition .

JasonAndreas

If you have flames coming out the rear I would look for a stuck or leaking injector (if they aren't than your timing is way off)? You can activate the injectors with a 9-volt battery and they will make a 'click' sound. If there is no click than you have a stuck injector. I would hope the DME would return a fault code for it but... The only way I know of checking for leaking injectors is to pull the fuel rail with everything (injectors and lines) still connected and look for a drip. I suppose you could check the spark plugs but that is even a bigger pain. There has to be another way?

Silk-screened onto each ignition wire is the cylinder number and on the top of each rotor between the center plug and the outer plugs the cylinder number is embossed onto the plastic. Its no problem to match them up you don't even need to pull the wires to check.

Did your problems start happening right away after getting your car back or was it a few days/weeks later?

Indycam

I wasn't going to tell him about the injectors just yet .

"There has to be another way?"
Exhaust temp gauge ?
On some aircraft each cylinder has a temp probe .

dfinnegan

When I left the shop I noticed that the idle was a bit, well, bouncy. The car actually bounced up and down slightly and rythmically. I didn't think too much of it as I had just had the valves adjusted and figured this was more the way it was supposed to be.

A day, or so, later I noticed that the idle was a bit low and dipping when I came to a stop sign or light.

Then the rains came to New York a few days later. About 12 inches in 8 days. I was out driving in a lot of it. At one point I was driving through very heavy rain and the car stalled at speed on the highway. I pulled over and waited a bit and then it started right up.

After that it began stalling when coming to a stop.

I noticed that I had white smoke at start up and also that the oil level was very high when the engine was hot. (I had an oil change with the valve adjustment).

I figured the oil level had spilled into the intake so I removed and cleaned the isv. After this I had no idle at all. Just stalling once hot.

This has been the condition ever since. It will start and idle when cold, but within two minutes it stalls and will not hold an idle at all. Also the loss of power at, or above 4k rpm.

I've replaced the oxygen sensor and have tested the engine temp sensor at the DME plug. At least I think I have. I tested pins 45 and 30 as referenced in the shop manual, but Loren indicated in another thread that pin 45 and 38 are for the cht sensor. I thought these were the same.

So, how to I activate the injectors? Do I need a large 9volt battery or will one of the smoke detector types work? And, where do I connect up?

Also, would a stuck injector cause these types of problems, do you think?

Thanks,
Dave

Lorenfb

"When I left the shop I noticed that the idle was a bit, well, bouncy"

Always a good starting point to "back track" and try & correlate the new problem
to what has changed, i.e. the shop most likely has caused the problem via their work.
Many problems just DON'T usually happen. There's usually some external cause.

JasonAndreas

The DME fault code you have is for the CHT sensor so the first thing you should do is run the engine for two minutes or however long until it stalls and then bypass the sensor in the engine bay. Start the car up and see what happens.


If that doesn't work you should make sure that all the ignition wires are plugged into the proper place on the distributor caps. With your problem only happening after running for two minutes (or until warm) I doubt the ignition wires would be the problem but they are real easy (and quick) to check.




and if ignition wires look good only then do you check the injectors with a fire alarm size 9-volt battery. Leave the positive side connected between the battery and the injector and just tap the negative lead against the injector (don't leave it attached or you will burn out the injector).



If all six injectors clicked okay then you might want to pull the fuel rail with the injectors and hoses still connected and look for a dripping/leaking injector.

Its possible but my money is on the CHT sensor crapping out after a certain temperature.

dfinnegan

So, bypassing the CHT sensor is done by shorting the two pins together? I assume that would be the pins which go to the DME. Otherwise the DME simply sees an open.

And, just so I'm perfectly clear, the picture you've provide (thanks very much!) appears to have the side of the CHT connector shorted which remains within the bracket. If I'm not mistaken, that is the side which goes to the sensor and not the side which goes to the DME.

Is the picture just for visual instructional purposes or am I mistaken in my assumptions about how the by-pass is accomplished?

Finally, if I find that the problem is, in fact, the CHT sensor, how big a job is it to replace?

Thanks very much for you time and input. Really. Thanks. To everyone. The members here are an outstanding resource!

Cheers,
Dave

JasonAndreas

I was thinking one thing and taking a photo of another, sorry (and corrected).

dfinnegan

I've solved my power loss and stalling problem. I diagnosed most of the sensors in the engine bay only to find them working fine. Then I finally got back around to diagnosing the AFM sensor only to discover that it wasn't connected! I had checked my work on the AFM / ISV, but had forgotten that there was a connector behind the AFM that I could not see.

Aside from the huge embarassment I feel, I apologize to all of you who've invested time and effort into helping me diagnose the problem.

I've learned an awful lot about the engine control systems and the diagnistic techniques required to trouble shoot them.

I've also learned that Lorenfb's advice to look back at what has changed recently and retrace those activities is very good advice indeed!

Cheers,
Dave

Millemiglia

Glad to hear you solved your problem!
Sorry you had to learn the hard way...

Anyway, now I know how to test the injectors!

dfinnegan

Yup. I, too, am glad that the problem is solved. And, am sorry I had to learn the hard way.

I now know how to test the injectors, how to replace the o2 sensor, and fix the threads when the old one doesn't come out cleanly, how to remove and install the exhaust parts, how to replace the CHT sensor, which connector is which all over the engine bay, how to test the o2 sensor, cht sensor, idle switch, mot switch, idle control valve, afm sensor, and air temp sensor, how to pull the dme connector, how to remove the blower (I could now do this with my eyes closed!), how to clean the AFM and ISV (and how to put the plugs back!!) and, how to eat a little crow!

Red rooster

Well done.Sounds like we were all going in the right direction.You certainly had a AFM problem !!This is an object lesson on how the ECU will try and try to keep the motor going even with catastrophic failure around ! As you have found, that makes it tough to find problems without a Hammer .
I am impressed that you had the ***** to put your hand up to a screw up .
All the best
Geoff