Upgrade Project (Part 3)
01-22-2003, 05:27 AM
#31
Drifting
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Leeds, where I have run into this many lamp
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
"......narrowed potential buyer group...."
I think the pinstripes already achieved this!!
Anyway, after spending £4k, you would be MAD to sell, you wouldn't necessarily see much of that back on resale anyway.
Enjoy the extra HP, the noise, the handling & the stripes!!
I think the pinstripes already achieved this!!
Anyway, after spending £4k, you would be MAD to sell, you wouldn't necessarily see much of that back on resale anyway.
Enjoy the extra HP, the noise, the handling & the stripes!!
01-22-2003, 06:10 AM
#32
Race Car
Thread Starter
Yeah, thanks John (saracasm) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
I forgot to mention that that JZM's dyno definitely deemed my car down on power, at flywheel the first dyno run gave 234hp - the second gave 256hp. They said that with a healthy engine and the GHL system in conjunction with their chip it would be possible to achieve around 300fwhp. Well, maybe we can have a look at the state of the engine later in the year... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> I will keep an eye on the oil consumption now a lot of the weeping/leaking oil lines have been replaced as well as cam seals.
I forgot to mention that that JZM's dyno definitely deemed my car down on power, at flywheel the first dyno run gave 234hp - the second gave 256hp. They said that with a healthy engine and the GHL system in conjunction with their chip it would be possible to achieve around 300fwhp. Well, maybe we can have a look at the state of the engine later in the year... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> I will keep an eye on the oil consumption now a lot of the weeping/leaking oil lines have been replaced as well as cam seals.
01-22-2003, 06:14 AM
#33
Race Car
Thread Starter
I have the geometry now:
Corner weights were FL 271KG, FR 281KG, RR 401.5kg and RL 402.5KG. (To convert from Kgs to lbs, multimply by 2.21). Apparently I have 0deg 30mins of neg camber in front (left and right) and I have 0deg 55min neg camber rear left and 1 deg of neg camber rear right. I don't know why this would be...
The car had half a tank of fuel and all fluids topped up.
Corner weights were FL 271KG, FR 281KG, RR 401.5kg and RL 402.5KG. (To convert from Kgs to lbs, multimply by 2.21). Apparently I have 0deg 30mins of neg camber in front (left and right) and I have 0deg 55min neg camber rear left and 1 deg of neg camber rear right. I don't know why this would be...
The car had half a tank of fuel and all fluids topped up.
01-22-2003, 06:32 AM
#34
Drifting
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Leeds, where I have run into this many lamp
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Christer
was the (sarcasm) in brakets for the benefit of the 993 lurkers who may have thought we were about to kill each other??!!
"...camber...don't know why this would be..."
Which bit are you not sure of? The negative camber diiferenc front to back or the difference at the rear??
The rear difference is, as you know, minimal, as 55 min is a bee's pecker off 1 degree.
The slight neg camber is prob a good thing, especially with the new ride height that we are yet to see pictures of........
was the (sarcasm) in brakets for the benefit of the 993 lurkers who may have thought we were about to kill each other??!!
"...camber...don't know why this would be..."
Which bit are you not sure of? The negative camber diiferenc front to back or the difference at the rear??
The rear difference is, as you know, minimal, as 55 min is a bee's pecker off 1 degree.
The slight neg camber is prob a good thing, especially with the new ride height that we are yet to see pictures of........
01-22-2003, 06:37 AM
#35
Race Car
Thread Starter
Yes, I was not sure why there would be a difference in camber from left to right on the rear. I know it is not much, but the fronts are identical. Anyway, just reporting - not necessarily understanding what I am reporting now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
01-22-2003, 06:46 AM
#36
Drifting
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Leeds, where I have run into this many lamp
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
the rear camber is 5/60th of a degree out...
so you have 1 degree on one side nad 0.916 degree on the other..
I don't think you'll notice the difference!!
so you have 1 degree on one side nad 0.916 degree on the other..
I don't think you'll notice the difference!!
01-22-2003, 04:19 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: WhippetWorld, .........is it really only this many
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Christer,
14 rwhp gain is still pretty impressive (to me anyway) from an exhaust replacement - its easier to lose power and torque with aftermarket systems than gain it. Do you think your old exhaust system could be responsible for some of your power loss cf standard?
14rwhp corrected to 23fwhp - hmmmm
Low barometric pressure indicates cold dense air (I think!) which ought to produce more power.
The H+R coilovers are great aren`t they?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> I kept over-correcting the steering at speed,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I blame everyday barges with deliberatly vague at the straight ahead power-steering for this bad habit. My GF is always sawing at the wheel on motorways in our primera, which is irritating, but has no decernable effect on the cars direction.The directness of the steering is just something you adjust to.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> I just think the car feels smaller and lighter, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I know what you mean. When people ask what mine`s like to drive I tell them it`s like a (old) Mini it feels small, direct and "chuckable" - it eggs you on to go faster.
Now you`ve driven without the adjustable anti roll bars do you think you need them?
14 rwhp gain is still pretty impressive (to me anyway) from an exhaust replacement - its easier to lose power and torque with aftermarket systems than gain it. Do you think your old exhaust system could be responsible for some of your power loss cf standard?
14rwhp corrected to 23fwhp - hmmmm
Low barometric pressure indicates cold dense air (I think!) which ought to produce more power.
The H+R coilovers are great aren`t they?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> I kept over-correcting the steering at speed,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I blame everyday barges with deliberatly vague at the straight ahead power-steering for this bad habit. My GF is always sawing at the wheel on motorways in our primera, which is irritating, but has no decernable effect on the cars direction.The directness of the steering is just something you adjust to.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> I just think the car feels smaller and lighter, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I know what you mean. When people ask what mine`s like to drive I tell them it`s like a (old) Mini it feels small, direct and "chuckable" - it eggs you on to go faster.
Now you`ve driven without the adjustable anti roll bars do you think you need them?
01-22-2003, 05:32 PM
#38
Race Car
Thread Starter
Tony
I have added the power plots on Webshots now. I don't think I am going to speculate further on the conversion factor of the dyno. JZM said that I could see way over 20rwhp with a healthy engine. Mine as I have said is a little down on power but while it doesn't use much oil I might as well leave it alone.
As to whether I need the RS bars, I don't really know as I haven't tried them. I am more than happy with the suspension as it is now, but they may be a nice addition - who knows. I am still looking for someone who actually has them installed on a RHD C2. If I don't find anyone in the next week or two they will go back.
There are of course other things I want to try, but as I want to do things properly (i.e. the whole hog) I may need to get the engine tested and if needed rebuilt in order to achieve any of my future plans. I am in no hurry, as I think the car is great so will just enjoy for a while and think about it in the autumn/winter 2003. Maybe in the meantime I could have alook at some weight saving - the only thing is I don't want to create a track only car so will have to think carefulyl about removing sound proofing and rear seats for example. I guess one way of getting rid of weight and the pinstripes for example would be to fit new lighter seats, but we shall see. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, and I quite like the pinstripes anyway. Perhaps I canget some PP's with pinstripe custom made?
I have added the power plots on Webshots now. I don't think I am going to speculate further on the conversion factor of the dyno. JZM said that I could see way over 20rwhp with a healthy engine. Mine as I have said is a little down on power but while it doesn't use much oil I might as well leave it alone.
As to whether I need the RS bars, I don't really know as I haven't tried them. I am more than happy with the suspension as it is now, but they may be a nice addition - who knows. I am still looking for someone who actually has them installed on a RHD C2. If I don't find anyone in the next week or two they will go back.
There are of course other things I want to try, but as I want to do things properly (i.e. the whole hog) I may need to get the engine tested and if needed rebuilt in order to achieve any of my future plans. I am in no hurry, as I think the car is great so will just enjoy for a while and think about it in the autumn/winter 2003. Maybe in the meantime I could have alook at some weight saving - the only thing is I don't want to create a track only car so will have to think carefulyl about removing sound proofing and rear seats for example. I guess one way of getting rid of weight and the pinstripes for example would be to fit new lighter seats, but we shall see. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, and I quite like the pinstripes anyway. Perhaps I canget some PP's with pinstripe custom made?
01-22-2003, 06:05 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Christer:
<strong>... I guess one way of getting rid of weight and the pinstripes for example would be to fit new lighter seats, but we shall see. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, and I quite like the pinstripes anyway. Perhaps I canget some PP's with pinstripe custom made? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Great idea, Christer. I just removed my RS America cloth seats and was very surprised by how much they weighed. I would guess about 50 lbs (22kgs) each! Considering that many of the Recaro and Sparco seats weigh less than 20 lbs (9kgs), it is a source of easy weight loss.
Good luck.
Erick
<strong>... I guess one way of getting rid of weight and the pinstripes for example would be to fit new lighter seats, but we shall see. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, and I quite like the pinstripes anyway. Perhaps I canget some PP's with pinstripe custom made?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Great idea, Christer. I just removed my RS America cloth seats and was very surprised by how much they weighed. I would guess about 50 lbs (22kgs) each! Considering that many of the Recaro and Sparco seats weigh less than 20 lbs (9kgs), it is a source of easy weight loss.Good luck.
Erick
01-22-2003, 06:42 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: WhippetWorld, .........is it really only this many
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Christer,
I suspect your already on the slippery slope to producing a track car. When I started out I purchased my 964 with the intention of modifying it. I knew what I wanted (993RS actually) a ROAD car with a more focused, harder edge than a stock 911 coupe. I have pretty much acheived what I set out to do, but, especially after a few track days, I`m no longer satisfied.
I know that in reality I don`t need anymore power and the handling only needs fine tuning if anything but the weight is a problem. Thing is, mine has linen leather so justifying ripping out the interior is not easy.
I suspect your already on the slippery slope to producing a track car. When I started out I purchased my 964 with the intention of modifying it. I knew what I wanted (993RS actually) a ROAD car with a more focused, harder edge than a stock 911 coupe. I have pretty much acheived what I set out to do, but, especially after a few track days, I`m no longer satisfied.
I know that in reality I don`t need anymore power and the handling only needs fine tuning if anything but the weight is a problem. Thing is, mine has linen leather so justifying ripping out the interior is not easy.
01-23-2003, 04:45 AM
#41
Race Car
Thread Starter
Tony
I understand the problem with the interior - I guess in some ways you purchased the wrong car, but how can anyone know this upfront? My interior is totally black so it would be easier to just install some black lightweight seats but I don't want to make this a track car. If I had wanted one of those then a bike-engined £25K Westfield or something would have done the job better than any Porsche.
I have said it before, my intention was never to transform the car into something else entirely - just to try and improve on the original as I see it. There is no right or wrong I guess as we all have our own tastes, but I am certainyl not going to change anything cosmetically (bodywork) for example. I just love it as it is.
I understand the problem with the interior - I guess in some ways you purchased the wrong car, but how can anyone know this upfront? My interior is totally black so it would be easier to just install some black lightweight seats but I don't want to make this a track car. If I had wanted one of those then a bike-engined £25K Westfield or something would have done the job better than any Porsche.
I have said it before, my intention was never to transform the car into something else entirely - just to try and improve on the original as I see it. There is no right or wrong I guess as we all have our own tastes, but I am certainyl not going to change anything cosmetically (bodywork) for example. I just love it as it is.
01-23-2003, 04:58 AM
#42
Race Car
Christer, if you could, post -or- send me a pic of your RS swaybar...and a shot underneath, where your factory swaybar resides in relation to your brake booster...I wanna get a good "look-see" because I have no clue why you would have to return the RS bars, they should fit!
Yes, once you emailed to say that you were going to keep the bars for a few days while things were figured out, I got some sleep.
Yes, once you emailed to say that you were going to keep the bars for a few days while things were figured out, I got some sleep.
01-23-2003, 07:24 AM
#45
Race Car
Thread Starter
I saw some numbers but can't remember what they were or whose they were...I can probably find out for some months yet before the dirt gets too bad....remind me to have a look if I don't get back to you. Probably be next weekend at the earliest..
Good luck with your installation.
Good luck with your installation.