Hi All,

My 1990 C4 has had a persistent oil leak from what I can only describe as a cylinder through bolt since I purchased the car. The car came with all the seal kits to have the leak fixed, but as it was not too bad I have left it for two years.

Now the time has come, but I am thinking of getting other work done too.

My brake rotors are near the end of their life and so they need replacing. I have been quoted by the OPC that will do the work, approx US$773 for the parts including pads. Should I stick with Porsche rotors? In replying please keep in mind that I live in New Zealand and we do not have aftermarket suppliers, so alternatives would have to be freighted to NZ from UK or US.

I also have an occassional puff of smoke when on a trailing throttle, but usually only when the engine is cool. So valve guides have been discussed. They are only US$240, but the heads will have to come off etc, which I was told would not be necessary in order to fix the original oil leak. Do you think this is worth doing or should I ask them to check their condition once the engine is out and is this possible?

My engine has done 130,000km and so the thought was to do the rings at the same time. Good idea?

There is the feeling of a slight nick, when upshifting 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 and 3 to 4. The gear lever also seems a bit loose to the OPC. So is this synchros or the lever?

As a "just in case" I have also priced a clutch kit. US$1554. In the event I need one, are there alternatives (C4 remember)?

If I do everything the cost will be NZ$13,000 or approx US$7,300 including labour. Don't forget NZ is a relatively "poor" country so labour rates are good compared to US and UK, but my salary is less too!!

Any advise will be appreciated.

regards

Neil Williams

 

Hi Neil,

Sounds like you have lots of work to do. Have you got an indication (other than the oil leak) that this work really needs doing?

With the smoking when cold - do you still have the Cat. Converter fitted? If not, then what you are experiencing may be normal - most 964 engines will smoke a little when cold - most of us just don't see it because the Cat. burns it off.
Get a compression and leakdown test done by an independent before you look into head/ring work as it could be unnecessary - 130Ks is not high mileage.

What seal kit are we talking about here?

Regarding Brake Disks - I would look into the 964 Turbo brakes - I've been told by JZMachtech that they are an easy conversion and they are cross drilled.

The snick you are feeling during gear change is most prob. the clutch. It may be dragging a little (not releasing quickly) this could be due to hydraulics (Master, slave or hoses), it could also be the hydraulic rear engine mounts failing.
If you were getting graunching or failure to engage gears then I would suspect the syncros. I would replace the hose and bleed the hydraulics first.

Replacing the clutch - Do you have the dual mass flywheel - and if so, has it been replaced? If you change the clutch you may also need to change this, along with release bearing and fork.

BTW. where in NZ are you

 

Hi Ade,

first the easy bit. I like in Auckland, more specifically Royal Oak. Where in NZ are you from?

I have all the "known" service records for my car, but no sign of a flywheel change. I have a had a compression test done, but not a leakdown. No problems with the compression.

The seal kits I have are 930.100.901.04 and 964.100.902.00. I am afraid that I can not tell you what they are but they have lots of nice new parts in them!

I have asked the OPC to price the worse case and had really started from the position of, while the engine was out I would do more work.

I do not have a cat, so the bit of smoke may be normal, but I do get a persistant yellowing of my bumper by the exhaust!

Brakes definitely need to be done as they have a nice lip on the rotors, but I will get them measured for thickness first.

Thanks for the input on the gear change, I will follow that up.

At the end of the day I do not want to just waste money, but not much hope of using an independent in Auckland, with a 964 anyway, hence using the OPC.

cheers

Neil

 

Hi Neil,

From Auckland as well, Meadowbank/St Johns Area.
Good to see another Kiwi here. : )

Prob. goog news re-smoking, sounds quite normal I think. Because the engine is a boxer, the pistons lay flat and oil residue settles along the bore. When you fire up cold - the oil bypasses the rings and burns. A good indication of engine health is oil consumption. Keep a record of how much you are consuming ( should be about 1L per 1000 klicks). If it starts to go up - then get it checked.

If the DME has not been chipped (and you still have the o2 sensor in place) then personally I would re-fit the Cat and replace the primary muffler with a Cup (primary bypass) Pipe - I prefer the sound as it's not so raw, usually very smooth, and 964's respond better with a bit more of back pressure (lots on archives about this).

If the compression was fine, then just get a leakdown test done to find out how good the top end is. You shouldn't need the rings done. I'm not entirely sure how effective just re-ringing a 964 motor would be - since the bores are tapered I suspect they cannot be rebored - requiring replacement cylnders as well - someone with more knowledge in this area would be able to tell you.

I guess it's Continental Cars or Giltrap telling you all this? Don't be too quick to give them your money.

I will chase up a friend in Auckland who's in with the Owen Evans Racing bunch and find out who you can reliably go to. I think there are some independants who know their stuff well, just not sure who they are.

I remember a Williams who raced a White 930 Turbo - are you related?

Ade

 

You are mentioning "worst case" when you asked the OPC. My experience with shops is, that this usually results in high bills but not necessarily in satisfied customers. Try to keep the bill low. Stuff like brake rotors and pads can be installed by any experienced technician. Shipping from the US (check out <a href="http://www.vertexauto.com)" target="_blank">www.vertexauto.com)</a> should still be cheaper than the 700 plus the OPC quoted to you. Good luck.

 

Neil,

Firstly, welcome back to NZ.

As for your problems:

1. New Porsche OEM cross drilled rotors for my front brakes cost NZD 795 for the pair. The pads didn't need changing.

2. My service records show my car having been in to check gear linkage wear in March 2001. No repair mentioned. Seems fine to me.

3. Ade answered that one.

From the limited info we've got it would seem like you are in a "fix it" mode. Trouble is that this can snowball. Why not replace the discs and put up with the rest? Oil patch on the garage floor, who cares? Small puff of smoke when cold, who cares?. You certainly won't get any of this money back on resale, and and you're talking close to 25% of the car's value.

If you do look to pull the engine etc, Conti's and the independents charge $65 per hour for labour. I don't know of any independents in Auckland that I'd trust, so if I had major work I'd drive to Powerhaus in Wellington and have the car railed back to me [about $250].

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by John McM:
<strong>Oil patch on the garage floor, who cares? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I agree unless the oil leak is coming from the back of the engine where the transmission is. A small oil leak there will eventually finds its way onto the clutch & flywheel and suddenly become a whole lot more expensive.

 

Sounds to me like you're sitting on the edge of that slippery slope. You can sell the car now and avoid dumping tons of money into the car. Any loss you take in the market will likely be smaller than the bill at the shop to have everything done "right".

In the end, it's only money and you're gonna die some day - so how much fun do you want to have?

You've got a 130km on the odometer. If you decided to yank the motor and have the seal kit installed you're going to open a big can of worms. Once you pull those heads off, you'll realize that you're pretty damn close to a top end job. You're going to have to have the heads machined, the valves re-seated. Are you going to put those tired old valves springs back in there? Perhaps you'll want to build up the valve train with a set of motorsport springs and stronger retainers.

The cam shafts are going to be lying on the bench and you'll get to see the wear on them. You'll soon see if the previous owners have been religous about changing the motor oil! About this time you'll be thinking to yourself - I wonder what an RS cam would do for me!

Once the engine is completely apart and your in for a big fat labor bill no matter what you do, you might as well have something to show for all that labor. ....like big shiny new 3.8L pistons!

In my opinion - If you're going to KEEP the car and you're going to spend some money, just bite the bullet and go all out. I just can't see spending all that money to tear the motor apart and then not using that opportunity to "up-fix" the car.

 

Hi,

I pointed out all the issues to the OPC and asked what it would cost, worst case!

The trouble with the oil leak is that it is getting worse. The rear of the car gets coated in a nice fine mist of oil and I feel like I am about to come a shareholder in Mobil

Consequently I can not check the oil consumption, as my car is automatically changing the oil at an alarming rate

I can't go back to the cat, as I don't have it and if I remember my conversation with Adrian right I have a strange beast that was produced without a cat.

So my plan today s to go through what the process would be with the OPC and work out the option points for different bits of work so that it only unfolds in a controlled manner.

I had always planned to fix the oil leak, negotiated it into the purchase price

Would be good to catch up sometime John, send me an email at neil.home@clear.net.nz.

Ade, any advise from your friend will be appreciated!

cheers

Neil