On a Buget
05-07-2002, 11:41 AM
#16
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My pessimistic view is that the words 'budget' and '911' do not sit easily in the same sentence.
A Porsche will never be cheap to run if you are maintaining it properly. Apart from the cost of maintenance which is already more than on most other cars, there are a number of other hidden costs. A few amongst these are the insurance, the will to modify or upgrade your car, the cost of learning to drive it properly (ie either some driver training or stamping it against the first wall on a rainy day) etc. Basically, full Porsche ownership to its full extent will take over your finances, but you seem willing to accept that.
On the other hand, I am sure you could buy a 911, run it for a couple of years without much more than normal maintenance and then sell it on to some poor soul. If you've been the lucky the previous owner wasn't like that which means you won't have a sudden engine rebuid to deal with.
On a final note, you could find that running a 911 when you're 19 is perhaps not the best thing as you'll have to give up on other pleasures of life in order to run your car. Having a nice car is good, but when you have to decide between a skiing holiday with all your friends or a new set of tyres you can end up a bit annoyed.
A Porsche will never be cheap to run if you are maintaining it properly. Apart from the cost of maintenance which is already more than on most other cars, there are a number of other hidden costs. A few amongst these are the insurance, the will to modify or upgrade your car, the cost of learning to drive it properly (ie either some driver training or stamping it against the first wall on a rainy day) etc. Basically, full Porsche ownership to its full extent will take over your finances, but you seem willing to accept that.
On the other hand, I am sure you could buy a 911, run it for a couple of years without much more than normal maintenance and then sell it on to some poor soul. If you've been the lucky the previous owner wasn't like that which means you won't have a sudden engine rebuid to deal with.
On a final note, you could find that running a 911 when you're 19 is perhaps not the best thing as you'll have to give up on other pleasures of life in order to run your car. Having a nice car is good, but when you have to decide between a skiing holiday with all your friends or a new set of tyres you can end up a bit annoyed.
05-07-2002, 12:56 PM
#17
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I've thought of the whole sarifice joy of living for the joy of Porsche, and I think the porsche will bring more joy. I now half my E2 pay will go to payments and the other half to the bank for possible repair costs. I was also curious as to what insurance might cost a boy of my age.
05-07-2002, 01:29 PM
#18
Regarding insurance, you can go to websites like insweb.com, statefarm and allstate to get a quick idea. I found a HUGE variance (over $1000/year difference) between carriers, and alot depends exactly on where you live and where they draw the boundaries. In addition, look at different deductibles for collision. If you can afford the risk associated with a higher $1000 deductible for comp and collision, do it. Another thing is the pleasure v. commute type of driving. If you plan on driving it for less that 4K/year it can pleasure and will be cheaper.
BTW: I found Prgogressive to have the best quotes from a reputable insurer.
BTW: I found Prgogressive to have the best quotes from a reputable insurer.
05-07-2002, 02:05 PM
#19
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I will be controversial!!!!
Personally I would choose a 3.2 Carrera over a basic 964
Although the 964 arguably has many improvements, it also carries a weight penalty for all that unnecessary equipment plus much of the unreliability is due to the amount so called technical advancements (4 wheel drive, ABS, traction control, tiptronic etc.)
The 3.2 Carrera could be argued as being the last "real" 911, no power steering, no cat (UK cars)
single mass flywheel and although much more reliable than earlier cars, still has some rawness that the 964 lacks.
This is demonstrated in the way good clean 3.2 Carrera's are holding thier money.
Sorry guys but sometimes rose tinted specs get in the way.
Personally I would choose a 3.2 Carrera over a basic 964
Although the 964 arguably has many improvements, it also carries a weight penalty for all that unnecessary equipment plus much of the unreliability is due to the amount so called technical advancements (4 wheel drive, ABS, traction control, tiptronic etc.)
The 3.2 Carrera could be argued as being the last "real" 911, no power steering, no cat (UK cars)
single mass flywheel and although much more reliable than earlier cars, still has some rawness that the 964 lacks.
This is demonstrated in the way good clean 3.2 Carrera's are holding thier money.
Sorry guys but sometimes rose tinted specs get in the way.
05-07-2002, 03:37 PM
#20
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>I will be controversial!!!!
>Personally I would choose a 3.2 Carrera over a basic 964.
Okay George, right back at ya'!
Objectively speaking, the 964 is more comfortable, safer, has similar gas mileage, and is considerably faster. These are things I would think most rational people would like to have--especially if the purchase price happens to be similar. No rose tinted specs here.
The desire or ability to pay for maintaining the added technical complexity that makes these advances possible is subjective. As is taste in body style.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
>Personally I would choose a 3.2 Carrera over a basic 964.
Okay George, right back at ya'!
Objectively speaking, the 964 is more comfortable, safer, has similar gas mileage, and is considerably faster. These are things I would think most rational people would like to have--especially if the purchase price happens to be similar. No rose tinted specs here.
The desire or ability to pay for maintaining the added technical complexity that makes these advances possible is subjective. As is taste in body style.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
05-07-2002, 09:37 PM
#21
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Last thought. Have you considered a late model 944? I'm not suggesting that a 911 is a bad idea, but many regard the 944 S2 as the finest road car Porsche ever built--and you'll have cash left over for repairs or upgrades! Sure, it doesn't have icon status like a 911, but what is it that you're really after? A great Porsche at a great price, right? Maybe the 944 is the ticket.
05-08-2002, 11:49 PM
#23
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"Richards_04"
My vote would be 964 if you have the $$$.
But your brief example of a budget tells me the 3.2 or a nice clean SC would be a better way for you to Learn about Poesche 911's. This may sound like "Father"ly advice - but you'll need to Eat out and enjoy a few other "things" in the next 3 or 4 years. An SC will give you alot of fun and you can DIY on most of the Maintenance.
More advice - call USAA for your insuance and see if your military status will get you covered by one of the best Insuance Co.s - exclusively for Military.
What ever you do .... enjoy <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
My vote would be 964 if you have the $$$.
But your brief example of a budget tells me the 3.2 or a nice clean SC would be a better way for you to Learn about Poesche 911's. This may sound like "Father"ly advice - but you'll need to Eat out and enjoy a few other "things" in the next 3 or 4 years. An SC will give you alot of fun and you can DIY on most of the Maintenance.
More advice - call USAA for your insuance and see if your military status will get you covered by one of the best Insuance Co.s - exclusively for Military.
What ever you do .... enjoy <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
05-08-2002, 11:59 PM
#24
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Let me quote Bruce Anderson (noted Porsche 911 expert) from the April 2002 issue of Excellence magazine, "For the price, the 944 Turbo offers more bang for the buck than any other Porsche model." For the 1988 and 1989 Turbos, here are the numbers: 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, quarter mile in 13.5 seconds, top speed of 162 mph, 247 hp at 6,000 rpm and 250 lb-ft of torque at 4,000 rpm. That's 964 territory. Upgrades vs. previous model years include improved brakes and ABS, firmer springs and torsion bars, stiffer low-pressure gas adjustable shock absorbers by Koni, a thicker front anti-roll bar and more rigid suspension bushings. Top price for a mint-condition vehicle, according to the Market Update from the same issue, is $15,113 for an 1989 and $12,913 for an 1988. Find a well-maintained vehicle with good tires and you're set!
05-09-2002, 01:08 AM
#25
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The 944 Turbo may not be a better car, but I think it is under your circumstances. You can get into a clean example for about half as much as a 964, and the performance is comparable. You can move up to the 911 in--say--5 years, when you're earning more $$.
05-09-2002, 02:22 AM
#26
The 944T is a great deal for the money, lots of parts available and lot of 951 folks on the boards. There are a lot of young people getting into these cars and doing mods to make them into very fast machines. With minor mods, a 951 can make over 300HP at the rear wheels and still be driven as a daily ride. If you shop around, you can find a good 951 between $6K to $12K.
05-09-2002, 02:38 AM
#27
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Wow! Tough (but fun) decision. I have a lot to say on this topic:
87-89 911: G50 transmission rocks, visceral feel of no power steering is VERY important. NOTE: I spent a year hunting for a nice 89 targa for a friend. He paid $24K in 2000 for a very nice 60,000 mile example.
90-94 964: Easily feel the extra horsepower, but the power steering makes the car less energetic (you can't feel the pebbles under the tires). NOTE: I own a concours 94 Speedster
About the money factors:
I'm now 28, but went through your very decision when I was 19. Back in '93, I had $25K to spend on a Porsche (stock market gains + the parents relented). I looked at 78-83 SCs and 84-on Carrera's. I joined the Porsche Club and searched PANORAMA for two summers. I also sought (and this is important) a trusted and local Porsche mechanic (Jim Newton in CT). Jim recommended that I spend HALF of my budget on the car, then 1/4 on upgrades and keep 1/4 on hand for maintenance. And he was right! I finally found a 1979 SC Targa with 106K for $13,500. I bought it, then spent @$7.5K on maintenance and $7.5K on upgrades over the next 5 years. The unforseen expenses can kill you.
In 1995, I helped a friend buy an 88 944 Turbo. Back then, he paid $10,000 with 55,000 miles. To this day, that was the best bang for the buck of ANY Porsche I have driven.
In conclusion -ask yourself this: What kind of driver are you? Do you prefer water-cooled or air-cooled? And how big is your budget?
Personally, I like air cooled 911s w/o power steering. I am currently looking for an RS America because they are the only raw 964 w/o power steering that maintains that 'visceral feel'. But that's just me...
87-89 911: G50 transmission rocks, visceral feel of no power steering is VERY important. NOTE: I spent a year hunting for a nice 89 targa for a friend. He paid $24K in 2000 for a very nice 60,000 mile example.
90-94 964: Easily feel the extra horsepower, but the power steering makes the car less energetic (you can't feel the pebbles under the tires). NOTE: I own a concours 94 Speedster
About the money factors:
I'm now 28, but went through your very decision when I was 19. Back in '93, I had $25K to spend on a Porsche (stock market gains + the parents relented). I looked at 78-83 SCs and 84-on Carrera's. I joined the Porsche Club and searched PANORAMA for two summers. I also sought (and this is important) a trusted and local Porsche mechanic (Jim Newton in CT). Jim recommended that I spend HALF of my budget on the car, then 1/4 on upgrades and keep 1/4 on hand for maintenance. And he was right! I finally found a 1979 SC Targa with 106K for $13,500. I bought it, then spent @$7.5K on maintenance and $7.5K on upgrades over the next 5 years. The unforseen expenses can kill you.
In 1995, I helped a friend buy an 88 944 Turbo. Back then, he paid $10,000 with 55,000 miles. To this day, that was the best bang for the buck of ANY Porsche I have driven.
In conclusion -ask yourself this: What kind of driver are you? Do you prefer water-cooled or air-cooled? And how big is your budget?
Personally, I like air cooled 911s w/o power steering. I am currently looking for an RS America because they are the only raw 964 w/o power steering that maintains that 'visceral feel'. But that's just me...
05-11-2002, 02:24 AM
#28
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Thank you everyone for all the advice. Because of cost and the desire to own a rear engine Porsche I've been looking real hard at this one for the money looks clean and is from a reputable dealer.
<a href="http://www.parkplaceltd.com/webinventory/details.asp?id=520" target="_blank">http://www.parkplaceltd.com/webinventory/details.asp?id=520</a>
<a href="http://www.parkplaceltd.com/webinventory/details.asp?id=520" target="_blank">http://www.parkplaceltd.com/webinventory/details.asp?id=520</a>
05-12-2002, 05:07 AM
#29
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Hi Richards_04,
If your in Washington and shopping at Parkplace, your in my back yard. Consider a visit to Exotic Autowerks in Seattle as you shop. Leon Seligman - the owner, always keeps a stable of fine lo milage 911s. I think he knows Porsche's better than the average Salesperson since that is 90% of his inventory.
<a href="http://www.exoticautowerks.com/" target="_blank">http://www.exoticautowerks.com/</a>
Another option is to connect with the Porsche Club NorthWest, and check out cars "for sale" in the classifieds from true Porschanuts!
<a href="http://platz.com/pca/pnwrpca/" target="_blank">http://platz.com/pca/pnwrpca/</a>
Have fun Window Shopping, and if I can help - drop me a line. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
If your in Washington and shopping at Parkplace, your in my back yard. Consider a visit to Exotic Autowerks in Seattle as you shop. Leon Seligman - the owner, always keeps a stable of fine lo milage 911s. I think he knows Porsche's better than the average Salesperson since that is 90% of his inventory.
<a href="http://www.exoticautowerks.com/" target="_blank">http://www.exoticautowerks.com/</a>
Another option is to connect with the Porsche Club NorthWest, and check out cars "for sale" in the classifieds from true Porschanuts!
<a href="http://platz.com/pca/pnwrpca/" target="_blank">http://platz.com/pca/pnwrpca/</a>
Have fun Window Shopping, and if I can help - drop me a line. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
05-12-2002, 03:19 PM
#30
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richards-04, E-2: I am an O-4 waaaay over 19. Yes, the Porsche is a great ride, catches the women, etc, but on E-2 pay, I would think long & hard before that kind of financial commitment. In any case, if you are determined, mabey you should lower your sights a bit, and go for the older cars, and take stock of your mechanical abilities. Especially with the older cars, you could perhaps do lots of the maintenence yourself, even if you end up doing it at the Post hobby shop. Remember also, your commander will not take kindly to letters of indebitness! I know, I know, unasked for advice, but brings out the father in me. Take it FWIW.
