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Harsh ride and tramlining.

 
Old 06-28-2001, 12:12 PM
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Riccardo
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Post Harsh ride and tramlining.

Hello,

I have found quite a nice 92 C4, drove it a couple of hours ago (cool..!).

The car seems not to have any oil leaks, has a new clutch (miles on car are about 62k), has distributor vent kit too (factory I guess). Color is VenturaGreen (a bit bright for my liking) and full leather inside, inlcuding dashboard.

My only qualm is that it seems to have a very hard ride. It tramlines on manhole covers, drains etc. Also, the brake has a heavy and spongy feeling and is akward to use. Does anyone know what this would be caused by?

Any opinions welcome. I can post pictures too, if anyone would like to see it.

Cheers
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Old 06-28-2001, 01:31 PM
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Drew_K
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I don't think the vent kit is factory installed. Porsche didn't include those until at least the 93 model year.

Was the flywheel replaced along with the clutch job? If so-was it the Luk? If not-check the engine number to see if the car should have the Luk flywheel.

I have a 92 C2 coupe, and it rides very harsh as well. Is it riding harsher compared to other 964's you've driven? Does it have the sport suspension?

I don't really notice much tramlining in my car. Perhaps it's the tires. Mine has the 16 inch 205 front and 225 rear with Dunlop 8000's. Different models of tires, as well as wider tires, can lead to tramlining. I think this could be addressed.

My brakes are heavy, which I like, but definitely not spongy. Has the car every had the fluid flushed? It could be as simple as that.

Post the pics, I'd like to see them.

Drew
92 C2 Coupe
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Old 06-28-2001, 01:55 PM
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kris
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Riccardo,

What's the price?

Kris
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Old 06-28-2001, 02:00 PM
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PeterH
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Riccardo,

First thing I noticed when driving a C4 for the first time was the harsh ride. John Miles' site has great description of the C4's ride from early test drives - they list it as a downside! Frankly, I love the feel. Getting back into the family Saab afterwards feels like driving a sponge!!

You definitely get used to the c4's ride pretty quick

Peter
1990 C4
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Old 06-28-2001, 02:24 PM
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Drew, the car is on 17" cups, with Bridgestone SO2 tyres at about half life front and back. Not sure about the sizes but I guess they are the usual 205 and 255. The guy also said that the car has had modified suspension, but it doesn't look that much lower than standard to me. It definitely seemed harsher than a 90 C2 with lower springs (but not shocks) I drove 3 weeks ago. I am budgeting for flushing of the brake fluid, (last one was done in 97!), is this procedure more complicated on C4s than C2s?

I haven't yet seen the bills, so not sure about flywheel. I immagine it has been changed.

Kris, asking price is ú17500, but I am sure it can be brought down.

Here is the piccie (hoping someone was going to ask for it!):

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Old 06-28-2001, 02:45 PM
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Riccardo,
Pics look ok, I personally like the color a lot. Does the car have a service booklet and is it resprayed? In my opinion, given the fact that it's a LHD, the price is high. Around here prices are lower. I have an offer for mine of 14.400 GBP. If you want I can send you details by mail.
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Old 06-28-2001, 02:46 PM
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BTW draining the brakefluid is a piece of cake. Standard procedure, first thing I've done on mine when I bought it.
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Old 06-28-2001, 02:56 PM
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Kris,

Sure, that would be great! My email is [email protected] (same as shown on Rennlist).

Waiting to hear from you.
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Old 06-28-2001, 07:59 PM
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Riccardo,
Looks very nice. I would say ú17.5k is on the high side for LHD private(?) sale but if the condition is A1 then it's probably not to bad with a bit of negotiation. I wouldn't want any expenditure for sometime at that price which can even out against a cheaper priced car. As you've probably found it's not that easy finding a realy good 964 in the UK.
As for the harsh ride and tramling, I have a C2 and noticed a marked difference in the C4 when driving one a while ago. IMHO the C4 seems like it is stuck to the road compared to the C2 especially over the country roads I drive on. Quite a different ride, I would enjoy both, just depends on which you prefer or if you have a preference.
I would expect the harshness is down to the springs as it looks lower than standard. Perhaps Eibachs were used as these lower the car less than the US H&R springs (remember the US cars were 10mm higher than Euro cars therefore H&R lower more I believe). Going from a 'modern car' to the 911 always feels a lot harsher. After driving my company car all week getting in the 964 always feels harsh to start with until you're 'dialled in'.
Good luck on the hunting.

Richard.
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Old 06-29-2001, 06:17 AM
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Dear Riccardo,
I am only going to comment on one thing. Take it or leave it. The brake fluid change on a C4 "MUST" be done in accordance with the factory manual. You must have a Bosch Hammer and a pressure bleeder system to do this job properly and safely. It is possible and I know a couple of people that have got away with it, not doing it as per the manual but the risk you run is very high. If you want to risk your brakes applying themselves at high speed, or not working at all, traction control and abs problems, then ignore the book. I am very strong on this because I can tell you after many years on the rennlist, failures exceed success by a good ten to one. If you want some examples, just check out the rennlist archives.
I cannot force you to do in accordance with the eight page manual procedure but I highly recommend it.
If you mess it up you will be very sorry indeed.
Ciao,
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Old 06-29-2001, 06:29 AM
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Dear Riccardo,
Should also point out on your harsh ride feelings. From the photos you have lower than normal profile tyres on those 17 inch wheels which is required by the way. As you reduce the profile (sidewall height) the harshness and tramlining affect will increase.
The standard wheels for the 964 C4 narrowbodies were 16 inches with 205/55ZR16 front tyres and 225/50ZR16 rear tyres. I suspect you have 205/50ZR17s on the front and 255/40ZR17s on the rear. The photos show it is lower than normal. Lowering springs on their own are not a good idea. The sports suspension option M030 does not actually lower the C4 just makes the ride 40% stiffer.
Ciao,
Adrian
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Old 06-29-2001, 07:18 AM
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Riccardo,
There's an F reg LHD 964 @ Prestige & Performance for ú14k which might be good for comparison as to condition etc (if you can stomach the inside colour!). Photos are at
stock
Peter
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Old 06-29-2001, 07:58 AM
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kris
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Adrian,
I did the brakefluid change together with a friend who has his own garage and who was a mechanic for BMW during 6 years. You need, as you correctly say, the necessary tools and a vacuum bleeder. Two persons are needed to do the job and it takes less than an hour. Saying it's a piece of take doesn't mean that anybody should do it, it means that for a qualified mechanic (and I don't believe it's necessary to be a Porschemechanic) it's an easy task. This change of brakefluid is by the way the only thing I have ever done on the car outside a Porsche garage. I had the brakesystem checked when I had new brakepads installed in the front. On the other hand you are very correct in issuing a warning to be very carefull when it comes to the most important thing on a car namely it's good braking capacity.
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Old 06-29-2001, 10:43 AM
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Dear Kris,
This explanation is a little better than the first. Your first description sent shivers up my spine.
Ciao,
Adrian
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Old 06-29-2001, 10:56 AM
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Thank you all for the posts so far.

I would be taking the car to a specialist in order to bleed the brakes. Budgetig about ú80 for this.

Ok, in the meantime I have been doing some other research on the car and found two bad news, on worse than the other.

The first is that the car was overfilled with oil. Exactly 12 liters extra, not nice. It was, however, taken to a good specialist here (La Rose Porsche, for the Brits out there) and all was sorted without problem. The spark plugs were changed.

Speaking to La Rose's service manager revealed the other bad thing. The car was taken in with 133,187 kms. However, yesterday it only had 104,972 kms. I guess maybe the guy selling it has been doing a lot of driving in reverse!

Shame, because the car seems to be quite nice....

[ 06-29-2001: Message edited by: Riccardo ]
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