C2 vs. C4
06-26-2001, 11:49 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
Yo Adrian, Did we meet in Heidelberg?
Anyway, C4 can oversteer when provoked. No suspension mods needed. Tire pressures can help is you want. Their dominant characteristic is understeer but when you drive them really hard they move through gentle drift to "Oh my God" oversteer. Remember the weight is still at the back and the laws of physics can be posponed but not altered.
They don't react very much to lift off but when they are near the limit you can control the degree of understeer/drift with the throttle.
Still having fun in my C4
Anyway, C4 can oversteer when provoked. No suspension mods needed. Tire pressures can help is you want. Their dominant characteristic is understeer but when you drive them really hard they move through gentle drift to "Oh my God" oversteer. Remember the weight is still at the back and the laws of physics can be posponed but not altered.
They don't react very much to lift off but when they are near the limit you can control the degree of understeer/drift with the throttle.
Still having fun in my C4
06-26-2001, 01:25 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Adrian, appreciate your input and fundamentally agree. I drive my car in the snow quite alot, and find it relatively easy to provoke understeer and oversteer. Simultaneous brake and gas on entry, with release of the brake after turn-in induces throttle-on oversteer. Trailing throttle inside to outside to inside (the rallye technique) does the same. My tires are 205F and 225R, but I note that Porsche lists 205 rears as an acceptable snow tire as well. AS
06-28-2001, 04:51 AM
#18
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Dear Alex,
I never include driving in snow in my discussions. I live in the moutains of Switzerland and spend a good amount of my time driving in the snow. To me any discussions of what happens in snow would not be helpful. Anything happens on snow.
I always use the old saying,
You know when you have massive understeer when you go through the guard rail forwards and massive oversteer when you go through backwards.
I drive my C4 hard. Really hard and I have yet to have the puppy oversteer on me (except in the snow). I have to admit not to attempt to induce anything. Now my C4 is somewhat modified and I have it set up to work in the way I want it and it does.
Just back to the snow. I run 205s up front and 225s on the rear in the snow. 16 inch wheels though, not 17s. I run 205s up front and 255s on the rear on 17 inch wheels summer only.
Wheel and tyre combinations and tyre pressure also have a significant role. As is clearly stated by the Irishdriver and I know he can wear out a set of tyres on a C4 in 5000klms. He takes a C4 well past its limit and if you want a demo of how to track a C4, go watch the Irishdriver in action,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
I never include driving in snow in my discussions. I live in the moutains of Switzerland and spend a good amount of my time driving in the snow. To me any discussions of what happens in snow would not be helpful. Anything happens on snow.
I always use the old saying,
You know when you have massive understeer when you go through the guard rail forwards and massive oversteer when you go through backwards.
I drive my C4 hard. Really hard and I have yet to have the puppy oversteer on me (except in the snow). I have to admit not to attempt to induce anything. Now my C4 is somewhat modified and I have it set up to work in the way I want it and it does.
Just back to the snow. I run 205s up front and 225s on the rear in the snow. 16 inch wheels though, not 17s. I run 205s up front and 255s on the rear on 17 inch wheels summer only.
Wheel and tyre combinations and tyre pressure also have a significant role. As is clearly stated by the Irishdriver and I know he can wear out a set of tyres on a C4 in 5000klms. He takes a C4 well past its limit and if you want a demo of how to track a C4, go watch the Irishdriver in action,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
07-04-2001, 09:25 PM
#19
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Hello
C4 ? Simple said it is much easyer to drive fast in any weather conditions. Also you will allways be faster on the rce track except you hat on a real C2 master.
I also never had a C4 oversteer situation. Sometimes you feel the rearend step out but the trany catches in and even full throttle mekes you only faster and neutral at a wider line. Off throttle will understeer and turn in the car. If not then someone might wigle up the car balance by lowering without attenting the load bias on the tires.
A C2 is definatly harder to drive on the limit. Needs more skill and will rub the rear tires away without being faster then a C4.
The only low side on the C4 is it has more oil in the axles and a clutch job is more expensive due to 1 hour more working time. Also you can´t make any serious work on the trany without the Bosch Hammer.
Grüsse
C4 ? Simple said it is much easyer to drive fast in any weather conditions. Also you will allways be faster on the rce track except you hat on a real C2 master.
I also never had a C4 oversteer situation. Sometimes you feel the rearend step out but the trany catches in and even full throttle mekes you only faster and neutral at a wider line. Off throttle will understeer and turn in the car. If not then someone might wigle up the car balance by lowering without attenting the load bias on the tires.
A C2 is definatly harder to drive on the limit. Needs more skill and will rub the rear tires away without being faster then a C4.
The only low side on the C4 is it has more oil in the axles and a clutch job is more expensive due to 1 hour more working time. Also you can´t make any serious work on the trany without the Bosch Hammer.
Grüsse
