Dunasso

Polarized sun glasses 120.00

Leather driving gloves 45.00

Locking glovebox w/alarm.........priceless.

jimq

Dunasso
you forgot the locking hood pull

Adrian

Hmmm. Porsche do not say this in their Technical Service Bulletin (see end of post). Notice Turbo is a Coupe.
The alarm is wired up through the glove compartment switch on all 964s with a stock standard alarm system using either the original 928 unit OR the model year 1991 and up fitted with the 928 microprocessor control units.
The function can be deprogrammed in the microprocessor based units depending upon national requirements or a change of alarm system such as in the UK. The old 928 units were pin programmed (model year 1989 and 1990) depending upon country code but the Technical service bulletin assumes standard pin programming which means glove box switch will activate the alarm.
Ciao,
Adrian.

Unintentional Alarm Activation By Glove Box Lamp Switch
Group
9

Number
9304

Model
911 C2/C4

Part Identifier
9607

March 18, 1993
Subject:
Glove Box Lamp Switch
(Unintentional Alarm Activation)

ATTENTION:
Service Manager/Service Technician

Models Affected:
911 C2/C4 1990-1992
911 Turbo 1991-1992

Concern:
Unfavorable assembly tolerances in the glove compartment door/lamp switch may cause unintentional activation of the vehicle alarm or excessive current draw which could lead to a discharged battery.

Repair Information:
In vehicles produced after October 1991, a rubber washer, Part Number 999 025 209 40 was installed between the hex portion of the glove compartment lamp switch and the opening in the knee bar. The installation of the rubber washer helps to maintain a more favorable tolerance between the glove box door and glove compartment lamp switch.

The rubber washer may be installed in vehicles produced prior to October 1991. It is necessary to remove the glove box to install the washer. Installation of the glove box switch is correct when the glove box lamp turns off before the glove box fully latches in the closed position.
General Information:
As of model year 1992, a new switch, Part Number 964 613 602 00, was installed. This switch can only be used in model year 1992-on vehicles.

Parts Information:
964 613 602 00 Glove box switch 92-on
901 615 601 02 Glove box switch 90 & 91
999 025 209 40 Rubber washer

darth

Hi All

If we could get a few more of you to actually do the test I think it would be interesting. All that has to be done is roll down the passenger side window so you can reach in and open the glovebox after you've locked the doors arming the alarm. So far we're 2 for 2 in that gloveboxes aren't wired into the alarm's in coupe's but appear to be wired in on cab's.

Your responses are appreciated
Bill
90C2

Dunasso

Bill I agree, it would be interesting to post a poll on the subject. I think a poll would reach more 964 Rennlisters than this thread. So take poll; I'll participate.

Duncan

Dunasso

Bill,

Just go to Post Topic and after you complete the post title and fill in the text message box, scroll down to the bottom of the page. Check the box that says " yes add a poll to this thread " then change the number of poll options to 2 (1 yes you have alarm and 2 no alarm). That should do it.

Duncan

JerryW

Just tested on my 91 Targa -- First time nothing (which I thought was strange) so I re-did the test and sure enough the alarm sounds.
I must have a sticking switch in the glove box.

darth

Hi Adrian

I gather your of the opinion that the glovebox is wired into the alarm system on all models including pre 1991. I don't get this from the service bulletin you provided it addresses a possible problem with the glovebox switch and a rubber washer which fixes the potential problem. You do go on to say that there are 2 systems a microprocessor based 928 system which can be programmed on post 1990 models and another pre 1991 model which can also be pin programmed to defeat the alarms for the glovebox. I'm not sure where you got this information but it reenforces the possibility that both systems can have their alarm programmed not to go off when the glovebox is opened. So far I know John's and mine (i.e. MY 1990 European and ROW) have been programmed not to sound the alarm when the glovebox is opened. This doen't mean all 1990 MY 964's have their glovebox alarms defeated. There have been a couple of open top MY 1991s which have been programmed to set off the alarm when the glovebox is opened but this doesn't mean Porsche couldn't have produced them with the alarms defeated. A larger sampling would help.

Bill
90C2

JasonAndreas

Bill,
All 964s including coupes have the glovebox wired into the alarm. My MY93 964RSA will not activate the alarm if I open the glovebox door with the alarm armed and the windows open but it is still possible to activate the alarm with the glovebox.



to test the wiring for the above photo I put the alarm into system check mode. So the two options we are left with is to either recode the alarm to CH (Switzerland) mode and that will activate the alarm if you open the glovebox through an open window or put a 30amp fuse in fuse holder #13 . Does your 964 have a sunroof? The only differences the wiring diagrams show is a reroute if you have a passenger side airbag.

Adrian

Dear Bill,
If you have my book on the 964 and you go to the References section you will find where I got my information from. The people and the manuals including the 928 manuals are all listed.
Plus you can add 7 years of 964 ownership and my own alarm problems and the ability to chase down electrical issues.
One of the reasons I have effectively left these forums is because people no longer can take "Yes" for an answer.
You have the Bosch Hammer output posted from Jason.
I know how the various country coded 964s left the factory right down to the smallest of the small details.
You either accept this or you do not.
A poll is not going to change the facts on how the 964 was built and in which configuration they were delivered.
Does the Technical service bulletin differentiate between C2/C4 Coupe, Targa and Cabriolet? The answer is no. If the problem was exclusive to a Cab or Targa it would say so.
If you check the model year 1990 wiring diagrams you will see that there are two different switch configurations. One contact switch only for the versions with airbags and two contact switches for the versions without. The light has its own switch.
All 964s have the glove compartment switch wired up to the alarm regardless of anything. If you can reach into a Cab or Targa through an open roof you can also reach into a Coupe through an open window. The contents of the glove box are protected.
I very much doubt that the standard alarms have this feature disabled for any market. If the Glove compartment switch is not activating the alarm it is because:
a). It is broken.
b). The person doing the check is not arming the alarm correctly whilst trying to check it.
The 1989 and 1990 928 analogue based system is pretty useless actually. Iit will not recognise a failed switch because it works on a change of signal state to activate. Earth or open. Earth means open and open means closed.
The only system arming switches are at the bottom of the door actuators.
The most common problem with the analogue alarm is that the earth lead falls off the rear of the switch. This creates an open circuit or door closed state. As far as the alarm is concerned the glove box door is shut. If you open it the switch works but does not send a signal to the alarm so guess what? The alarm does not go off.
964s that have aftermarket alarms fitted (like all in the UK and elsewhere) there is no knowing what is working and what is not working because these were all dealer installed and no wiring diagrams are available. However experience has shown many of these installations are hatchet jobs with much of the existing wiring damaged and or bypassed.
Ciao,
Adrian.

darth

Hi Adrian

Thank you for your response. On my car the glovebox light comes on when the glovebox door is opened and the light goes off when the glovebox door is closed which proves the switch is working and therfore the alarm should be getting the correct signals unless there is a problem at the other end of the wire where the alarm picks up the signal. If the wire has fallen off the switch and is shorted to ground then the light would stay on even when the glovebox door is closed - this is not the case and if it has fallen off and is not shorted to gound the light would not come on when the door is open this isn't the case either. I believe I'm arming the alarm correctly since the alarm works as it should when any other door switch is activated. Is there an input to the alarm where I can test and if so where is it? It should work off either a change in voltage or a change in current.

Bill
90C2

JasonAndreas

Bill,
Does your MY90 have a sunroof and is there a 30amp fuse in place-holder #13 in the front trunk?

Adrian

Dear Bill,
Do you have airbags? If you read my post it clearly says there are two type of switch systems. If you do not have airbags then the glove box light has its own switch and a second contact switch.
Can you test this system ie: The old 928 system used for the 1990 model? Nope not without the breakout boxes which you have to connect at the control unit plugs and use a Bosch Hammer with the correct software menu.
You will need to find a 928 shop for this. I have never seen them in your average 911 shop.
Your comments about the switch may also be incorrect. You will usually find two earth wires on these Micky Mouse contact switches. One for the light circuit and one for the alarm. The easiest one to see is the luggage compartment switch. How do I know? Been there done that bought that t-shirt.
The alarm system uses switched earths for all contact switches except the radio contact switch which is powered and can flatten the battery if damaged.
Good luck.
Ciao,
Adrian.

darth

Hi Adrian

Thanks for your response. I do have airbags. As far as the 2 earth wires - I'll double check but I think I have only one connected. Hope I can find the second one that's not connected as this is probably what's causing the alarm to malfunction. Unfortunately I probably won't get a chance to look at it till the weekend - I'll keep you posted.

I discovered the radio earth wire which had been cutoff by the PO and had left a few hair wires from the outside braiding dangling. When the car alarm was armed it would trip the alarm from time to time especially when the car sat out in the open on windy days. I think the wind was somehow moving the wire or causing it to ground out on the chassis behind the dash and setting off the alarm. I've since solved this problem by making sure the center conductor (i.e. green radio wire) can't touch the outside braiding or earth with insulating tape. I can't imagine this radio wire has anything to do with the glove box switch in any way even though it's properly insulated? Was it hooked up to a micro switch on the original radio installation and connected the outside braided conductor to the center conductor when the radio was pulled out?

Thank you for your help - your knowledge is appreciated
Bill
90C2

Adrian

The radio switch wire known as the "green wire syndrome" is a separate problem. The original radio rack contact switch was built into the side of the rack. Porsche used this in the early 993s as well. Many people just cut the wire off and left it dangling or shorted and damaged the insulated post.
What you have to remember about the 1990 models of the 964 is that knowledge and test equipment are somewhat limited. The factory manual does not even cover this early alarm system. Porsche were (and still are) cheap. They reckoned that as long as the system was explained somewhere they would leave it where it was. In this case in the 928 manuals. If you want the indepth view of the ABS system you also need the 928 manuals (or my book).
Most people (including mechanics) have no clue as to when, how and why the early alarm system works. It is so easy to bypass a broken switch or wiring that instead of carrying out the Service Bulletin, people just disconnected the switch. 15 years down the track who knows what is fitted and what has been done? To access the switch properly the dash has to be removed. With airbags this is more difficult. Ah just cut the wire nobody will know! This is what happens.
When the old alarm fails most people just have another aftermarket system installed.
There are no black and white answers to questions except the basic facts. One being that Porsche used a standard basic wiring loom for all 964 models.
I have double checked the factory 1990 wiring diagrams and regarding the glove box system there is no differentiation between Coupe, Targa or Cab. Only with or without option M562.
Ciao,
Adrian.