Ghost in the machine. Warning lights and bell
10-08-2002, 05:21 PM
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Ghost in the machine. Warning lights and bell
OK...As I'm driving the lower four warning lights come on in the large cluster. The brake pad warning, the oil pressure warning, the parking brake and the brake light all appear simultaneously. The large '!' also lights. Then a ringer goes off. Oil pressure is fine, Oil level is right and the brakes are good.
Now what did I do? Today I had the air filter off to reach in and tighten the power steering reservoir hose. I don't see any connection I could have disturbed.
The engine was out a few weeks ago for seals and gaskets and ran fine for three weeks after reinstallation.
Why would these four somewhat unrelated lights come on?
My guess is an electrical fault and I find electronics spooky.
(My first 911 wouldn't shut off if the directional signal was engaged for a left turn so I'm convinced that there are ghosts in these machines.)
Before any of you folks say it...NO, I didn't spend the day with brothers Beck and Heineken!
Now what did I do? Today I had the air filter off to reach in and tighten the power steering reservoir hose. I don't see any connection I could have disturbed.
The engine was out a few weeks ago for seals and gaskets and ran fine for three weeks after reinstallation.
Why would these four somewhat unrelated lights come on?
My guess is an electrical fault and I find electronics spooky.
(My first 911 wouldn't shut off if the directional signal was engaged for a left turn so I'm convinced that there are ghosts in these machines.)
Before any of you folks say it...NO, I didn't spend the day with brothers Beck and Heineken!
10-08-2002, 07:33 PM
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I recommend checking the brake fluid reservoir. My lights come on when ever the fluid isn't at the top. It was very disturbing until I learned what it meant.
Rob
Rob
10-08-2002, 09:31 PM
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Fred,
Bummer, I know that electrical glitches can be your worst nightmare.
You didn't mention the year of your car. Also, you should mention if you have a C2 or C4.
I had an intermittent electrical glitch in my car -- one of the symptoms was that the warning lights & buzzer would come on for no good reason. It turned out to be a cracked spark plug boot.
While trying to figure out this problem, I saw that there was a tech bulletin for the early 964's -- the ground strap on the engine lid hinge may come into contact with the igition wire. The fix is to rotate the ground strap onto the side of the hinge so it doesn't hit the ignition wire.
At any rate, good luck!
-- Melissa
Bummer, I know that electrical glitches can be your worst nightmare.
You didn't mention the year of your car. Also, you should mention if you have a C2 or C4.
I had an intermittent electrical glitch in my car -- one of the symptoms was that the warning lights & buzzer would come on for no good reason. It turned out to be a cracked spark plug boot.
While trying to figure out this problem, I saw that there was a tech bulletin for the early 964's -- the ground strap on the engine lid hinge may come into contact with the igition wire. The fix is to rotate the ground strap onto the side of the hinge so it doesn't hit the ignition wire.
At any rate, good luck!
-- Melissa
10-09-2002, 04:54 AM
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Fred
Melissa helped me fix my problem, same lights as she was getting but mine turned out to be a badly pitted dist cap.
I was getting an arcing off 1 of the ignition leads.
I would check all the contacts on your leads are clean and shiny and then go to the dist caps and rotors. If no joy goto the sparkplug ends of the leads as i think this will be the most difficult.
Good luck and if you want to read up on the lights do a search on "xmas or christmas tree" or "warning light".
Good luck
Rob 91 964
Melissa helped me fix my problem, same lights as she was getting but mine turned out to be a badly pitted dist cap.
I was getting an arcing off 1 of the ignition leads.
I would check all the contacts on your leads are clean and shiny and then go to the dist caps and rotors. If no joy goto the sparkplug ends of the leads as i think this will be the most difficult.
Good luck and if you want to read up on the lights do a search on "xmas or christmas tree" or "warning light".
Good luck
Rob 91 964
10-09-2002, 03:31 PM
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Thanks everyone:
Today it lights up every light except the anti-lock signal. The car is a '90 C2.
If I stop and restart, it then goes away for ten to fifteen minutes.
I guess I'll head for the garage and check all the above tips. I do suspect a faulty plug as it has an intermittent miss at idle...sometimes.
Thanks again.
Fred
Today it lights up every light except the anti-lock signal. The car is a '90 C2.
If I stop and restart, it then goes away for ten to fifteen minutes.
I guess I'll head for the garage and check all the above tips. I do suspect a faulty plug as it has an intermittent miss at idle...sometimes.
Thanks again.
Fred
10-10-2002, 12:25 PM
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No Luck......
Is the central informer a 2x3 inch black box attached to a bracket next to the steering column? If so, I find that someone had previously cut and reattached some of the wires with those quick clip connectors. There's also a gang plug near there with the large red/black wire clipped and reconnected too.
Do the informers ever fail? What if it's disconnected? Will the car operate or will the brain be upset?
We've also checked the battery and charging capacity of the alternator..they're within spec.
This is going to make me crazy.
Thanks.
Is the central informer a 2x3 inch black box attached to a bracket next to the steering column? If so, I find that someone had previously cut and reattached some of the wires with those quick clip connectors. There's also a gang plug near there with the large red/black wire clipped and reconnected too.
Do the informers ever fail? What if it's disconnected? Will the car operate or will the brain be upset?
We've also checked the battery and charging capacity of the alternator..they're within spec.
This is going to make me crazy.
Thanks.
10-10-2002, 05:16 PM
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Fred,
No joy in Mudville, eh?
Quick question -- have you had a mechanic check it out with a Bosch Hammer? The car might be throwing a code that will help diagnose the problem.
Good luck!
-- Melissa
No joy in Mudville, eh?
Quick question -- have you had a mechanic check it out with a Bosch Hammer? The car might be throwing a code that will help diagnose the problem.
Good luck!
-- Melissa
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10-10-2002, 09:59 PM
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Melissa: and all... Thanks
I have to say that the term 'idiot lights'as we called the old american substitutes for gauges is now coming to mind. I'm driving a car that is functioning fine and performing well and yet I'm hostage to a beeping dashboard that I have no control over. I wish I had my old '69 2 litre back as it didn't beep or light up and yet I knew full well it was doing it's job.
I know that the 964 is also doing all I want it to do also but I have to endure this nonsense of false signals. I would prefer that the signals are disconnected and I rely on the instinct I have from all the years of enjoying these cars.
At this stage, I don't want to be beholding to the lights on a speedo.
I would be comfortable with fewer gauges and more reliance on the common sense of owning and understanding the car and all that is happening under the hood. If my attention to the details of brakes, fluids and all the common sense items of ownership fail me, so be it.
I guess that's getting back to the basics.
Sorry for the rant, but it may strike a chord.
Fred
I have to say that the term 'idiot lights'as we called the old american substitutes for gauges is now coming to mind. I'm driving a car that is functioning fine and performing well and yet I'm hostage to a beeping dashboard that I have no control over. I wish I had my old '69 2 litre back as it didn't beep or light up and yet I knew full well it was doing it's job.
I know that the 964 is also doing all I want it to do also but I have to endure this nonsense of false signals. I would prefer that the signals are disconnected and I rely on the instinct I have from all the years of enjoying these cars.
At this stage, I don't want to be beholding to the lights on a speedo.
I would be comfortable with fewer gauges and more reliance on the common sense of owning and understanding the car and all that is happening under the hood. If my attention to the details of brakes, fluids and all the common sense items of ownership fail me, so be it.
I guess that's getting back to the basics.
Sorry for the rant, but it may strike a chord.
Fred
10-10-2002, 10:56 PM
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Fred,
Believe me, I can definitely relate! I hated it when the warning lights would come on while I was in the fast lane of the freeway making good time. Well, the first time the lights came on, it was about two weeks after I'd bought the car, and I was a bit shaken. (Can I still drive it? How much will this cost to get it fixed?!?!) As the problem progressed, it was more of an annoyance -- having to pull over, shut the car off and restart it to get those stupid warning lights to stop.
One of the other symptoms of my problem was that the car would run great for the most part, but occassionally it would stall. Or it would have a split second loss of power. Do you have any intermittent symptoms like that?
Another long shot is to try replacing your DME relay. It is often the culprit for weird things, and not that expensive.
Good luck!
-- Melissa
Believe me, I can definitely relate! I hated it when the warning lights would come on while I was in the fast lane of the freeway making good time. Well, the first time the lights came on, it was about two weeks after I'd bought the car, and I was a bit shaken. (Can I still drive it? How much will this cost to get it fixed?!?!) As the problem progressed, it was more of an annoyance -- having to pull over, shut the car off and restart it to get those stupid warning lights to stop.
One of the other symptoms of my problem was that the car would run great for the most part, but occassionally it would stall. Or it would have a split second loss of power. Do you have any intermittent symptoms like that?
Another long shot is to try replacing your DME relay. It is often the culprit for weird things, and not that expensive.
Good luck!
-- Melissa
10-10-2002, 10:58 PM
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Fred,
Here's another idea. Do you have any ... um....rodents that could get to your car?
My roommate's daily driver (yes, daily driver, not in storage or anything) was a victim of a rat attack. The buggers made a nest under her hood, chewed up some of the wiring, that resulted in a bunch of weird behavior.
OK, now I'm grasping for straws....
-- Melissa
Here's another idea. Do you have any ... um....rodents that could get to your car?
My roommate's daily driver (yes, daily driver, not in storage or anything) was a victim of a rat attack. The buggers made a nest under her hood, chewed up some of the wiring, that resulted in a bunch of weird behavior.
OK, now I'm grasping for straws....
-- Melissa
10-11-2002, 04:33 AM
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Hi Guys
I know exactly how you feel. Fred myself and another rennlister Patrick in the US had the same problems. The beeping is the worst and very annoying.
Short term solution is to remove the central informer from the equation, it just unplugs 20 pin female conector i think.
CAUTION>>>> This will stop any of the warning lights and buzzer on your dash from showing, all guages will work and it will not harm the car, but if you were to have a serious problem such as loss of oil it would not alert you, also the low on petrol light does not come on.
I did this for a number of months while i tracked down the problem. Quick check for arcing ign lines is to run car in garage in the dark, open enginge bay and kill courtesy light, look for any signs of a spark.
As for your wires cliped on the central informer i would get them reconnected properly. Looks as though the previous owner had the same problem and has tried to fool the central informer.
I think the C.I gets messages from the CPU under the drivers seat. This monitors the engine performance and compensates for and changes, sorry just stating the obvious. If you are getting a voltoge spike or a loss of power it gets confused and sends the message to the CI that there is a serious problem of unknown nature, therefore all warning lights. Also if the CI looses power for a split second then gets it back this will cause the buzzer as it thinks the CI is failing.
When you have traced it and fixed it you will get a warm glowing feeling all over. Good luck its annoying but not life threatening.
Rob
91 964 cab
I know exactly how you feel. Fred myself and another rennlister Patrick in the US had the same problems. The beeping is the worst and very annoying.
Short term solution is to remove the central informer from the equation, it just unplugs 20 pin female conector i think.
CAUTION>>>> This will stop any of the warning lights and buzzer on your dash from showing, all guages will work and it will not harm the car, but if you were to have a serious problem such as loss of oil it would not alert you, also the low on petrol light does not come on.
I did this for a number of months while i tracked down the problem. Quick check for arcing ign lines is to run car in garage in the dark, open enginge bay and kill courtesy light, look for any signs of a spark.
As for your wires cliped on the central informer i would get them reconnected properly. Looks as though the previous owner had the same problem and has tried to fool the central informer.
I think the C.I gets messages from the CPU under the drivers seat. This monitors the engine performance and compensates for and changes, sorry just stating the obvious. If you are getting a voltoge spike or a loss of power it gets confused and sends the message to the CI that there is a serious problem of unknown nature, therefore all warning lights. Also if the CI looses power for a split second then gets it back this will cause the buzzer as it thinks the CI is failing.
When you have traced it and fixed it you will get a warm glowing feeling all over. Good luck its annoying but not life threatening.
Rob
91 964 cab
10-11-2002, 01:47 PM
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Thanks again.
The DME relay was replaced last year as the car would just outright quit as I tooled along the Long Island Expressway.
Right now, I'm going to remove the CI fuse and shut it up for a while as I try to figure this one out.
Today, it lit up numerous times with no uniform pattern to the lights that came on or the buzzer's appearance.
As for rodents, I don't think so. I've literally seen just about every inch of the car top to bottom in recent weeks.
However, I did have a resident deer mouse in my first 911 years ago. He was stockpiling seeds and fluff under the gas tank.
The DME relay was replaced last year as the car would just outright quit as I tooled along the Long Island Expressway.
Right now, I'm going to remove the CI fuse and shut it up for a while as I try to figure this one out.
Today, it lit up numerous times with no uniform pattern to the lights that came on or the buzzer's appearance.
As for rodents, I don't think so. I've literally seen just about every inch of the car top to bottom in recent weeks.
However, I did have a resident deer mouse in my first 911 years ago. He was stockpiling seeds and fluff under the gas tank.
10-11-2002, 07:29 PM
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My car did the full "christmas tree" effect - they eventually traced it to a corroded coil wire, which was shorting out.
It happened gradually, in my case. Once or twice over the course of a month or so, and then it became near-constant. In addition to the lights and warning buzzer coming on, my car also went into reduced power "limp mode".
As much as you may hate to resort to outside help, I would strongly suggest bringing it to the dealer and having them hook up the Bosch hammer. The only way that the tech at the dealer was able to diagnose my car's problem was that it indicated an error code with the "hall sensor" (whatever that is), which is apparently near the coil wire that was the problem.
Good luck!
It happened gradually, in my case. Once or twice over the course of a month or so, and then it became near-constant. In addition to the lights and warning buzzer coming on, my car also went into reduced power "limp mode".
As much as you may hate to resort to outside help, I would strongly suggest bringing it to the dealer and having them hook up the Bosch hammer. The only way that the tech at the dealer was able to diagnose my car's problem was that it indicated an error code with the "hall sensor" (whatever that is), which is apparently near the coil wire that was the problem.
Good luck!
10-13-2002, 02:36 PM
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Me thinks I have something serious happening. The Informer is unplugged and I just ran it on a 15 mile errand. When I got back in, it started fine but on the way home it started to cut out, stumbling on acceleration and stalling at idle. I got it home and now it won't idle for more than 20 seconds and just stalls.
I have to think I must have something not connected properly since the reinstallation of the engine.
Tomorrow I hope to limp to the local dealer and hit the Hammer.
I have to think I must have something not connected properly since the reinstallation of the engine.
Tomorrow I hope to limp to the local dealer and hit the Hammer.
10-14-2002, 05:51 AM
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Hi Fred
I am not sure if partick is around to read these posts but i believe he had similar problems to all of us here who have posted on this topic.
The only difference if my memory serves me correctly was that his car went into limp mode. This is a real term and Adrian may be able to explain it to you. I think because the cpu is getting current surges it thinks there is a major problem and is trying to protect the engine.
Sorry to hear its got that bad. The hammer may be your quickest route to solving it.
Regards
Rob
I am not sure if partick is around to read these posts but i believe he had similar problems to all of us here who have posted on this topic.
The only difference if my memory serves me correctly was that his car went into limp mode. This is a real term and Adrian may be able to explain it to you. I think because the cpu is getting current surges it thinks there is a major problem and is trying to protect the engine.
Sorry to hear its got that bad. The hammer may be your quickest route to solving it.
Regards
Rob