JonSeigel

For those who haven't seen it, in the February 2002 Excellence, Bruce Anderson states that: "Aside from early-964 problems with faulty dual-mass flywheels, failing distributor units, and cylinder-head leakage, all of the late model 911s have been highly reliable cars. The advancements of the 964 over earlier 911s make it a very desirable Porsche. It is faster, drives better, and more creature comforts than its predecessors."

So, now that the obvious has been confirmed (at least obvious to those who have actually driven 964s), I am holding my breath (*not*) for a big upswing in 964 prices. Comments?

GeoC2cab

High,
He even gave us an extra $150 on the upside for '91's (at least the cabs) since last market report.

Jay H

At least Bruce has refrained from his "964 is the ugly duckling" comment for some time now.

Jacks911

My guess is ... after getting some time to compare the lines of the "original" style of the 964 to the Boxteresq 996, even Bruce can see the value of a "Classic" ! There is beauty in many modern cars like the 996, M3, S2000, and Audi TT. But in my minds eye the final and near perfect evolution of the "901" design is the 964.

GeoffD

I just got my copy and was totally suprised to see that the standard comment about the 964 C4 as being "best left as a winter car" is now gone.

Does anyone know if Bruce A is actually a proficient driver? I remember once being on the race track behind a Porsche "guru" who had quite a following and all I can say is that I feared for the guy's life. It left me wondering where the guy's strong and allegedly informed opinions on handling came from.

I know that Bruce ran a shop and is probably very up to date on maintenance and reliability issues. I am interested in the basis for some of Bruce's positions on performance and handling. I have the feeling that they may start as misinformed opinions and over time, as they get repeated enough in print, they become fables.

Adrian

Dear Geoff,
I would hope that this may be as a result of BA listening and reading about the 964 from 964 owners, taking some of this new information on board and writing about what he has learned.
964 owners as a separate group have only recently found their collective voice and all of us have to listen to the owners some time or another. If I want to learn about the 911SC, the best people to teach me are those who own them. Maybe this is the start of a new chapter, maybe not. I have not knowledge of BAs experience on or off the track. I know he does "test drive stories" but his skill level is not known. He is getting on a bit now anyway,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

Carrera51

Who said the 964 is the "ugly duckling." My dad has a 93 964, I have an 84 911. I salivate over his car every time I see it. Polar Silver, with the dark blue leather, lowered with H&R Springs, Bilstein sports, with B&B headers and dual out muffler with 4" tips. My car is set up for club racing, his is a nice comprimise streetable drivers ed car. I have driven both on the track and even though the 964 weighs roughly 300lbs more than my Carrera the 3.6 more than makes up for it. While there are things I like better about my car, there are plenty of things on his I would rather have, like his motor. The only thing that stopped me from getting a 964 in 1999 when I bought my car is $$$$. I took Bruce Anderson's advice and bought the nicest well maintained car I could afford. The only thing I could do without on a 964 is the power steering. Just doesn't seem necessary on a rear engined car.

Still I already told dad if he ever decides to get a later 911, I get first dibs on his 964. In terms of bang for your buck, I think its hard to beat.

Bill Gregory

I think Adrian hit the proverbial nail on the head. Bruce has been having discussions with 964 owners recently, and I believe he told Bill Wagner that he was revising his standard 964 description in the Excellence Market Update, which he did. It's a pretty upbeat commentary, compared to previous comments. Will it take prices up? I wouldn't get excited about that prospect. With prices being depressed right now, if anything you might see that reflected in the prices. Bruce doesn't make the market values up, he has followed several publications for years tracking asking prices, as the basis (one of the inputs) for his market values.

Bill Wagner

I did have some fairly detailed e-mails with Bruce. I can't really speak on his behalf, but my guess is that his problem is that people interpret WAY too much into what he says. If he states, as he did in both his book and his older (964) market reviews regarding the cylinder head oil leakage problem that "only a small percentage of cars will have this leak" and then a bunch of half-wits go out and decide that "only a small percentage" is equivalent to 100% and blab it on the internet, I mean seriously...what can he do about it???

Over the last few years I would guess that Bruce has seen his words taken out of context and has learned the impact of being careful with wording. Once again, I can't speak on his behalf, I'm speculating. You can SEE why 964 owners would get a little tired of the bashing they get from the pre-964 groups when facts are taken out of context, and you can understand how they may generate some rather beligerant e-mails to Bruce Anderson...particularly if such comments may lead to actual monetary loss. On the other hand, Bruce Anderson pointed out to me (via his book) what to look out for and what to check for. I'm smart enough (I hope! ) to be able to know and assess the risks that exist with the car and am confident I bought as good of one as I could have bought at the time because of it. There are flaws with it (Freudenberg flywheel) that I will need to address some day (hopefully later rather than sooner)but I'm prepared any way, simply because I know what to expect.

I like his new review. It's honest and it really does point out the performance plusses that made me prefer a 964 to a 3.2L Carrera anyway.

Good Luck,

Bill Wagner

JeremyW964

I learned much from Bruce Anderson and thanked him personally when I bought my car for the knowledge I gleaned from his articles. Just like the daily newspaper I pulled from it (Excellence) the facts and checked out the commentary on my own.

Kind of nice to see a well written piece on the 964 and 993's.

964Cab

In my view BA has dropped the gasket-less aspect of the early 964s and seems more focused now on the fact that the early 964s cylinder heads had reduced sealing surface area versus the later 964 heads; the 993 heads have even more sealing surface area than the late 964 heads. I've seen '92 964 heads and the head sealing area is significantly larger than the early 964 heads.

richard glickel

As someone who now enjoys the best of both worlds, viz., an '87 Carrera with a 964 engine, I can't imagine that the rest of the cars (964) wouldn't be a bunch of fun to own and drive with their significant improvements over the earlier 911s.

Richard
'87 Carrera 3.6L