Drew_K

What is the maximum camber I might expect on my 92 C2 after lowering?

At my last alignment, the max front camber I could get was about 0.6 degrees. I have a set of H&R 965 springs on the way, and I was wondering how much more I might be able to get. I'd like to get to 2 degrees.

If I can't, then it sounds like I need to get some camber plate$.

Thanks for any help,
Drew

Mr. C4

Drew,

i faced the same problem a couple of weeks ago and the independent porsche specialist could only get -0.5 dergees front camber. Ended up taking the car to a proper motorsport workshop and the managed to get as much as -2.0 by turning the top strutmounts 180 dergees, rear should not be a problem. I havent found any sideffects from the strutmount mod, the car is very nicely set up now with -1.36 all corners.

Ciao,

Johannes E.

Drew_K

Johannes, is your car lowered?

Mr. C4

Eeeeeeh, YES! H&R 965 Turbo springs and Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks.

Jeff Curtis

Hmmmmmm, Mr. C4...that setup sounds awfully familiar!

I can get OVER -2deg. camber on the front of my 964, with the same setup as Johannes...something like -3.XX was obtained once when one of the allen bolts loosened up at the track...what a crazy feeling car that was!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

It took me two sessions to figure out what the hell was going on!! <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />

A friend was walking by and said, "Geez Jeff, how much neg. camber do you run on this thing!!??"

I came over to where he was (passenger front) and you wouldn't believe how noticeable a difference from -1.5 to over -3.5 deg. was!!

Problem solved VERY quickly with the help of a Longacre camber gauge and a BIG 10mm allen socket...obtained prior to suspension changeout.

The shop that did my alignment just uses an "L" shaped 10mm allen wrench, and when I checked the other side, which hadn't loosed up as of yet...it was under 60lbs of torque!! <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

I CRANK those allens to about 130lbs now...don't try that at home chillens!! Yes, yes, I know, that's WAY more than factory suggested torque, but I don't want those babies coming loose again!!

Mr. C4

Jeff,

Still got a lot of pitch during braking and acceleration, while roll is dramatically reduced after fitting the 965 springs. Have you ever heard about the turning of the top strutmounts like my workshop did?

Ciao,

Johannes

Drew_K

Jeff, were you able to get more than 2 degrees of camber without rotating the top strut mounts like Johannes?

Bill Gregory

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>I CRANK those allens to about 130lbs now...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Jeff,

Factory spec is 135nm or 100 ft lbs on the M12x1.25 strut/camber bolts.

Jeff Curtis

Bill...you crazy gallute!

...I know what factory spec is.

That's why I made a point of saying what I do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

It gives me comfort and security now, especially knowing that those HUGE allen bolts can go flying at any moment! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

Serious now, I do torque them more than 100lbs, just for good measure.

Johannes/Drew, I don't recall if the hats were offset or anything...so it's possible that I got them in so as to allow for more negative camber??

You got me thinking now! Seems to me that if the stud pattern compared to the shock's shaft mount hole was offset, I would've noticed it in a heartbeat??

Johannes, what do you mean by pitch?? You say the front end dives hard under braking?? If so, don't brake so much in a straight line, with your ABS your car can trail brake like no other...no lie.

I have, on many occasions answered to concerns from fellow Instructors in the passenger seat regarding my trail braking...it's fun, it works and the only way I'm getting away with it is probably the ABS.

I find that the car overslows if I get all my braking done in a straight line, but it also understeers a bit on good flat or off-camber turns while trail braking...so there's a balance in there somewhere.

Mess with your swaybars, as many have noted before on this board, it doesn't pay whatsoever to have your front one too tight, some disconnect them for autocrossing...but NOT for track events!

Cupcar

In addition to the torque spec Bill G. points out the factory chassis manual on page 40-2 also states that the bolts, nuts and washers attaching the strut to the wheel carrier must be replaced after dissassembly . The 10 mm length of bolt thread that threads into the nut and also the shoulder of the bolt that contacts the washer must be lubricated with Optimoly HT (available at a Porsche dealer)before torquing. The manual makes it clear not to get lube on any other part of the assembly.

I have my car aligned and torqued with the old bolts and then replace them one at a time so the alignment does not drift using the factory recommendations above and new bolts, nuts and washers. Also following these recommendations maximizes the clamping force of these bolts that retain the alignment...and the suspension together. I figure if Porsche goes to such trouble to make these recommendations it is probably a safety issue. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Drew_K

Where does one buy these replacement nuts and bolts made of unobtanium? I imagine I can't just buy off the shelf bolts from Home Depot. Cupcar, where do you buy yours? Seems like inexpensive insurance.

Thanks,
Drew 92 C2 Coupe

Bill Gregory

Drew,

900.067.310.09 M12 x 1.25 x 90 bolt
999.084.623.09 locknut
999.025.212.09 12.5 x 24 x 3 washer

Any Porsche dealer can order them. Some, like Reeves and others, discount their parts. When I last ordered those parts in late 2001, the bolts were like $3, the nuts $1.40, and the washers $1 each.

BGLeduc

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> You got me thinking now! Seems to me that if the stud pattern compared to the shock's shaft mount hole was offset, I would've noticed it in a heartbeat?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">FWIW, my 2nd gen RX7 had the same capability...the top of the damper was slightly off center WRT the bolt circle.

That said, it was subtle....I may have gained a couple 1/10nths of a degree negative on an otherwise stock suspension. If you eyeballed the the shock tower, you would not immediately notice.

Now of course, I need to run into the garage and look at shock mounts on my C2!

BGL