slant911

After owning this porsche for just about 2 months now it seems to me that having a hammer in your garage is nearly mandatory. Practically everything I've read in replies says check this or that with a hammer. How much are one of these things. Is it so expensive that not everyone would want to own one or is it possible that several guys in the same area could go in together on one. I am accustomed to fixing my own problems with vehicles not having to constantly take it to the shop to have it hooked up to some special equipment. Anyone know what this tool costs? Seems like if you need your car put on the hammer 3 times a year at a cost of $200 a wack. It might well be worth it to just have one.

MelissaM

At one point, Bill Gregory called Baum Tools to find out the price:

The total price with cables and module needed for Porsche only is $4375.06 plus freight.

Not only that, but Adrian chimed in that it is no longer supported by Bosch Germany.

Here's a link to the entire thread:
Bosch Hammer Thread

-- Melissa

PS I have a very good mechanic who will check the codes at my request. I feel bad for folks who get charged $200 just to have someone plug in the hammer & read out the codes.

Bill Wagner

You don't HAVE to have a hammer...particularly at four grand!!

If you have a '91+ model with the built in diagnostic check engine light, it can provide you with a lot of the diagnostics the hammer provides. When the hammer provides codes related to basic engine tuning/emissions failure, it's only reading the same stuff the check engine light will produce. If the check engines light outputs are erroneous, they will be with the hammer as well. You CAN do more with a hammer, but if you just apply some common sense and thought to troubleshooting and use it in conjunction with the outputs from the check engine light, I think you can get by diagnosing most tuning issues. You need the service manuals to work without a hammer, but you can get by. The hammer is an elaborate tool but you can, for the most part, survive without it, and in cases where you really do need it you can likely get a shop to diagnose whatever it is you're looking for either a low cost or free (if they're nice guys ).

Just my opinions,

Bill Wagner

slant911

I have a 90' with NO check engine light. So I can't get those fault codes w/out the hammer.

horst

slant, you may well HAVE the check engine light. Look at the lower left side of the oil tep/ pressure gauge, and I'll bet you see it. The lens is there, and the wiring is built into the gauge itself. The trick is can you make it work?. To test, just pop the gauge out, take out the blanking plug, and push in a bulb (it's cheap, same bulb as the ones next to it. The trick is this may only work in a CA car (option code CO3), and if you have had the DME updated by Porsche. It would take you only 1 minute to check, so try it. Mine works perfectly (90C4)

slant911

O.K. getting a litle off topic from original question, but, how do I know if the DME has been updated? I'll check on the light tonight. I do know that the car was originally purchased in CA, so, I may have a chance I guess.

horst

I'm not sure how you can tell if the DME has been updated. In connection with another problem I had once, I convinced my dealer to send mine to Porsche Atlanta where they did it free, so I know mine was. Mabey someone else can tell you. I suggest that since you have a CA car (CO3 option)you take a minute and just plug in a bulb in the socket- you don't even need to buy a new one. Just take one of the ones next to it and push it in to the check engine socket (Ibelieve you need to give it a 1/4 twist, then try it. The bulb should light momentarilly when you turn the key to start, as do the others. To pull codes: 1. Key off 2.Press and hold accelerator pedal to the floor 3.turn key to run position 4. Observe check engine light. If it is working, it will flash once. release the accelerator pedal and observe the light. It will begin to flash, almost like morse code, long, short, etc. There is a code for "all's well" I can't tell you offhand what that is I have my list of codes in the garage, too lazy to get right now. Please let us know what happens. I would be curious if the requirement is CA car AND upgrade DME, or merely CA car...

Adrian

Dear Horst,
It is very hard to tell if a DME has had a software update. If the facility doing the job did not mark it on the outside with a part number change or mod status change it will be almost impossible. I should also pointout however that the flashing codes in only for engine related faults. I cannot remember how many. I think 18. It does nothing for the rest of the systems and you still need the hammer for these,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

PS: You can install the bulb and try it of course but learning the flashes may take a while. I know one person who did this and just had rubbish. The DME was obviously never updated and the quote of $1200 to do the job was deemed out of the question.
PSS: The most common need for the hammer is to reset airbag warn light problems and PDAS/ABS problems, brake bleeding on a C4. Almost everything else can be worked out without a hammer. Takes more time and can be more frustrating.

slant911

Sure enough the check engine light is there in the cluster with a blanking plug on the back. There were (2) big rectangular connectors attached to the back of the guage. I did not put a bulb in the check engine light socket as I was out of time last night, but, will try it out by this weekend and let you know the results. I will also check on the DME and see if there is any update info on it. I have a question though - If I just take a bulb out of the socket and put it into the check engine light area isn't that bulb still lighting for the other indicator I took it out of? How do it know?

Thanks.

horst

No, slant. the individual sockets are segregated from each other. leave the rectangular plugs alone, pull outone of the(actually, I think twist out) other bulbs next to the check enginge socket and put the bulb you took out & put in the check engine socket, and give it a try. If it does not wok as advertised, (BTW, there are 20+/- codes you can read), then if you want this to work, that means that you need to get your DME updated by Porsche. Like I said it's free, the trick is convincing your Porsche dealer to send it on to Atlanta. In my case, they had given me a bum steer about diagnosing a problem, probably were a bit embarrassed, and did it for me.

slant911

Horst,

I will try that, but, I think you missed the last part of my post. If I simply unplug a light out of one of the other sockets and plug it into the area where the check engine light is. Isn't that light actually indicating whatever it came out of and NOT the actual check engine. What I'm trying to say is the system would still be lighting for ABS or whatever wouldn't it? Not check engine. How would the "brain" know that the light was in the check engine socket. Am I confused? Aren't these just "idiot" lights like on other P-cars I've had? Or is there some intelligence there I'm not comprehending. Sorry if I sound stupid. Maybe I am :-)

horst

Not stupid. Mabey I am not understanding. The circuitry is built into the gauge/ sockets. the bulb is stupid. plug it in to the check engine socket, and it will be happy to know that it is informing you of check engine info. It is like the Taliban. It changes loyalty depending on where it finds itself.

Bill Wagner

Slant911:

Please keep us updated on your progress. I'm interested in seeing if this will really work.

Here's an amusing story:

I used to own a fairly expensive Sony VCR. When it finally wore out, I bought another Sony with what I thought were fewer features at a fraction of the cost (VCRs were still expensive back then). When I got the new VCR (supposedly) without all the features of my former "high end" VCR, I decided to see if the old remote controller would work with the new VCR. Guess what..it did. Not only did it work, but many of the functions that I was told (by salesmen AND the Sony users manual) were absent from the newer VCR were in fact there.

I wonder if Porsche did something similar to the 964s.

CHEERS

Bill Wagner

slant911

I will definitely try it this weekend and report back. Bill, I like your VCR story, but, I wonder why ANY manufacturer of ANY product would not sell it on ALL of it's features. Seems bizarre to me that Porsche would include a check engine light that apparently has some good functionality and not put a .25 light in it to make it work

Bill Wagner

Slant:

I'm not saying Porsche did do it...just don't be surprised if they did.

The original (expensive...about $500.00 at the time) VCR had outstanding heads...you could do a lot of specialized editing with it. The cheaper VCR (about $200.00 at the time) had heads that were "normal". I suppose for Sony to attract people to the more expensive VCR they limited it's "features" by providing a lesser controller. This process is by no means uncommon...I've run into the same type of thing on my Onkyo receiver.

As far as the light on the 964 goes, most cars sold in the US had similar check engine light set ups by 1990 (lights that could spit out codes). Possibly Porsche was working on something at that time but didn't formally implement it because US emissions regulations weren't clear to them (since they change), or perhaps they redesigned something. Who knows? I doubt they did it as a "marketting" thing because it's technical in nature.

In any case, good luck,

Bill Wagner