ashame1

I am considering the purchase of a 1991 C2 Targa.
29k miles
Good overall condition.

I would appreciate any input as to whether there are any problems to be aware of on this model year.

ckkrause

Ashame1-

I have exactly the same model you are considering purchasing. I got a targa because I love having it off every clear day. I got a Tiptronic because I'm in town traffic quite a bit and it's much easier than rowing through the gears a million times! I've actually grown to like the Tip a lot. Keep in mind that both Tip and targa can reduce the number of possible resale candidates when you're ready to sell the car.

You need to look out for distributor belt wear. The solution is a small exhaust tube from the side of the distributor to the large air guide on the left side of the engine. Second issue is possible sepage of oil at the head/cylinder mating surface. Otherwise, just the usual considerations for Porsches... Make sure to have a Prepurchase Inspection done by a Porsche expert familiar with the C2. Oh, one last thing, check to see that the seals on the Targa top are good and that the top doesn't leak...

Randall G.

Hey Ashame1,

If you don't know already, be aware the tiptronic drops the (factory rated) 0-60 mph time from 5.5s to 6.4s. This may or may not be important to you.

I love the classic Targa styling--very "Porsche." . It rarely rains here in the summer, and I'll remove the top and leave it off for weeks at a time.

Best of luck!

Bill Wagner

Ashame1:

The other advice is good so I won't add anything to that. To see if the engine is a candidate for the cylinder head leak, check the engine serial number. Most '91 models have updated engines so the cylinder leak should not be an issue. Here's the data on when that change took place in production:

Engine serial numbers where the changeover from non-gasketted to gasketted heads
occured in 1991 as follows:

Manual Transmission: any number beyond 62 M 06836, M64.01
Tiptronic Transmisson: any number beyond 62 M 52757, M64.02

Needless to say, you don't need to worry about the Dual Mass Flywheel, since a tip doesn't have one.

Good Luck,

Bill Wagner

Michael Delaney

Ashamel, In addition to all the good advice above I would check the owners manual section on the dash lights. Read about which lights should come on with the key in on position(not started). People have been known to disable seatbelt, airbag, etc. Good luck. Roy '91 C2 Cab Tip.

MikeA

I may be wrong, but 0 - 60 for tip is 6.4secs in automatic mode, but 5.7 secs in manual mode.

Shifting in manual mode is far superior.

Randall G.

Sorry Mike ... I have old road tests on the tip, and they state explicitly that best 0-60 mph times--achieved while shifting in manual mode--are still nearly some 1s off the manual's time.

As an example, here are excerpts from a Car & Driver road test of a C2 'tip:

<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/rgranaas/Tiptronic%20Article.jpg" target="_blank">Tip article1</a>

<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/rgranaas/Tiptronic%20Article%20Page%202.jpg" target="_blank">Tip article2</a>

Note: As implied in the article, Car & Driver had previously wrung a 4.8s 0-60 mph time out of a manual 964.

Jay H

Here are a couple more data points:

I've got a couple of Road and Track articles from 1990 showing a manual tranny C2 with a 0-60 time of 5.4 seconds and a 1/4 mile time of 14.0 sec.

The Tiptronic was compared as well and it took 6.9 sec. to go from 0-60 and the 1/4 mile was done in 15.0 sec.

1AS

I've had both a 90 tip and a 91 manual (and now have a 2002 ttX50 and a tip Boxter). In your own car, the tip is quicker in traffic because you will never duplicate the factory or magazine test technique for hard launches in stick shift cars. Also, the 1-2 shift comes up so fast that you need to be a quick shift artist and ignore possible expensive injury to your own car to achieve quick times with the manual. It's not only my experience.
I attended a Blackhawk Farms track event where Derek Bell was the instructor. On a short course segment with low speed turns, the tip was quicker in his hands than any of the other 20 cars. (top 2 times were both tip cars- ahead of C2's C4's, modified 911's and a couple 930's. I know that this sounds wrong, but it is true. AS

Jacks911

How ever you look at it the Tip is a personal choise. I have a '91 Cab Tip and I love it. But I agree that if you love managing the gears, heal & toe shifting, nothing beats the stick. The One Second difference is only of value if your a buying the car for the Drag Strip (and that is not what Porsches where built for IMHO). On country road, the Tip is great, shift if you want or not, it allows you time to focus on Driving. And another note - after first gear Road tests show the Tip compares very well to a similar C2 in speed range acceleration. If this was not so ... why have F1 cars moved to clutchless driving??? I think Your Driving habits - local road traffic paterns and intended use should be evaluated, and a test drive in both types will answer the question,.... to Tip or not to Tip?

Stephen Smith

The miles are very low, make sure that the service record books check out correctly and see whether the servicing of the car was done by an authorised Porsche dealer. Otherwise you may contact the company who serviced the car and ask them what the car was like. You may want to do a bit of detective work in that regard.
In relation to the Tip, there is nothing untoward in it's mechanical operation. I have one (93) and it works fine, especially if you are driving through the city, or on the open road, it's perfect and if you want you can drive it in manual mode.
You would be wise to get a once over on the car from a reputable Porsche mechanic.
Good Luck
Stephen Smith
93 C2 Tip

Bill Wagner

I looked seriously at a "tip" when I was looking at cars. The R&T review Randall showed us is STILL showing a 0-60 time of 6.1 seconds (which I assume is in manual mode), which is still pretty quick.

Is it going to be as fast as a manual in linear acceleration? No, but as far as auto-tranny cars go, the "tip" was the most impressive car I've driven (beats the living Hell out of my NA 300ZX by a long shot!!). One of the things the R&T article is comparing the C2 tip to is a 300HP 300ZX TT with an automatic. I'm not sure that's a fair comparison based on HP, but as the owner of a 300ZX (NA) with an auto installed, all I can tell you is I'm NOT impressed with it's transmission (which is why it's my commuter car....damned reliable by the way). I was left with the impression that the "tip" could be mastered and actually used for REAL performance driving. I can't say the same thing about my 300ZX...it's delegates it into a sheep in wolfs clothing.

FWIW, the "start in 2nd and downshift to 1st", even in manual mode, is an "emissions thing". It's done to increase the fuel economy of the car. Another question I would have about the R&T review is just exactly how they launched the car to get those figures. In my own tests, I got the impression the "tip" was much faster in manual mode as long as you were aware of what you were doing and how the transmission operated. It will NEVER be as fast as a manual, but I think they're quite impressive...but then again I wasn't tracking the car either.

Just my opinions,

Bill Wagner

Jay H

BTW, Porsche claims their Tiptronic transmission is one of their most reliable transmissions.

Randall G.

[quote]Originally posted by Jacks911:
<strong>***snip***

If this was not so ... why have F1 cars moved to clutchless driving???

***snip***
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Someone who follows racing closer to myself please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the "clutchless" F1 transmissions actually still use a clutch--as opposed to the torque converter used in a traditional automatic. The clutch is electro-hydraulically actuated--very rapidly--and thus no loss is performance as compared to a manually operated clutch.

Ferrari and BMW (SMG) street cars use this F1 style transmission.

I have nothing against tips .... great for the right owner under the right circumstances. Just wanted ashame1 to be aware of one of the tip's compromises, so he wouldn't have second thoughts if he was to find out later.

Jay H

I don't want to drag this too OT, but having recently experienced the F1 style tranny in a 2002 M3, it's amazing to feel the computer operate the clutch and bang through the gears in this car. It's darn near violent at the top sport settings! A must for track use and they require a bit of concentration until you get used to shifting gears with paddles on the wheel.

Randall is correct in that these new F1 style tranny's have a clutch.