Chris Martin

I usually see a porsche once a week or so near the mall, or somewhere on west street. So far the only wave has been from a black 911. Maybe I am from the old school, you know, being 26 and all, but it adds something to the pleasure of ownership when there is a sense of camaraderie. When I drive the MGB, when it's running that is, I get all kinds of waves. Maybe they are expecting me to break down and need a lift home!

Chris

J-McDonald

I agree with the posters who said that it's an enthusiast thing -- people who drive 964 and earlier 911s are very likely to be enthusiasts. This is the case because the cars are old enough that they require regular care and maintenance and are thus not likely to be daily-drivers (I know that some 964 and earlier 911s are daily-drivers, but I would argue that it is a relatively small percentage).

On the other hand, Boxsters and 996s and, to an increasingly lesser extent, 993s, are less likely to be owned by enthusiasts and more likely to be owned by people new to Porsches who don't necessarily care about the Porsche heritage (i.e., status seekers). This is the case because a new on-warranty Porsche 996 or Boxster doesn't generally require any more care and maintenance than a new on-warranty Lexus or Mercedes. Further, buying a new 996 or Boxster doesn't require anything more than making a trip to the dealer and writing a check. In contrast, buying a 964 or older 911 is generally a more involved experience (searching for "the car"; inspecting it and getting a PPI done; working with individual buyers, etc.), which would tend to weed out the non-enthusiasts. I think that 993s are now getting old enough that the balance is shifting toward majority enthusiast ownership, but there are probably still some status seeker 993 owners. This doesn't mean that there aren't enthusiasts who own 996s and Boxsters (I'm sure there are plenty), but I think that the liklihood of non-enthusiast ownership is higher for these cars.

MelissaM

J-McDonald, that's an interesting theory. I think I'll post a separate thread on this. I know this isn't a scientific survey, since the readers of this board probably aren't a truly representative sample of 964 owners in general. However, I am curious about how many folks use their 964s as daily drivers.

-- Melissa

jeff91C2T

You never know what kind of driver's behind the wheel of P-cars. Last weekend my girlfriend was getting hit on at a party(she says). I say it was just conversation. Anyway, this guy tells her "he drives a European car...it's a 911 Carrera". Very impressive, eh. She says to him "Oh, do you like the low end torque?". He responds "Oh ya, I had it lowered."

My girlfriend autocrosses and has been subjected to many a conversation regarding Porsches. We got a pretty good laugh out of that one.

Randall G.

Excellent theory J-McDonald--I think you're on to something. I would only disagree in that I believe more than a relatively small percentage are daily drivers--unless you mean as in comparison to the average new car? Anyway, suppose Melissa will be eliciting more data on the subject.

To pull the thread a little more, purchasing the typical 10 year old Japanese luxury/sporty make isn't such a risky proposition (relatively speaking and excluding the last generation RX-7). Purchasing your typical 10 year plus (or even only 5 year) old Porsche really is.

J-McDonald

Randall, I agree with your theory re: older Japanese cars. I've personally spoken to people who were initially interested in buying an older 911 (rather than, say, a new or near-new Boxster or M3), but were ultimately scared off by the prospect of large repair bills (fear of large repair bills is, I think, the main reason why you can purchase a used 944 turbo for a song). I don't think that the same fears are present in buying a 4 year old Acura.

One more point is that enthusiasts are more likely to keep their 964s beyond the customary 3-4 year new car cycle than non-enthusiasts. Since the newest 964 is 7 years old, almost all non-enthusiast owned 964s have long since been traded in on newer cars (some p-cars, some non p-cars). As a result, I would argue that the vast majority of people who purchased their 964s new and still have them are real enthusiasts.

As for the daily-driver point, I meant cars that are the primary vehicles for their owners (i.e., drive it every day or almost every day, weather permitting). I think that if you compare all 996s, all Boxsters, all 993s and all 964 and older 911s, you will find progressively smaller percentages that are primary vehicles (i.e., 996s: probably high 70%, Boxsters - a little lower, 993s: 30-40%, 964s: 20-30%, older 911s: 10-20%). Note: the above numbers are purely my speculation; I have no research to back them up.

Randall G.

Based on what I've read in Melissa's post, I think your speculation is pretty accurate. I'm surprised that more people don't use their 964 as a daily driver, and stand corrected. Perhaps my brain is still in 1992, when my car was new, and if it wasn't a daily driver, then no P-car was.

In my own little microcosm ... every morning when I leave for work in my 964, I see my neighbor's parked '99 Boxster. When I return from work, it's still there--the definitive weekend only car. A little ironic, considering I'm the one with the 10 year old car that should be resting during the week .

Tom Sharpes

I thought I'd chime in here with an interesting (and telling) story.

I was asked to do a series of tech articles for our PCA regions magazine and after a lot of thought on what to write as an opener I decide to do an article on "the flash".

When I was talking to the editor of the magazine and told her what the article was going to be about the response was "What's that ?? Not only that, but her husband is the membership chairman of the region.

Go figure !

Jeff Curtis

I think it is more towards the earlier theory...with the people that make the upper-level incomes starting to like the Boxsters/996, it's just the fact that they can afford one of these cars and they could give a hoot about tradition, etc. I don't think they do this intentionally, but ignorance fits the bill.

I know, that's one of those words that everyone seems to take as an INSULT...but considering the true definition, I feel that may more describe these people.

Why not take the time to educate these types? Make it sound "fun"...as it is! It's the P-Car "hello". I had my 911SC for about 2-3 years until an avid member in our local club ran me down one day to ask what my problem was...I had no clue, but that's all it took.

Now I know another use for that "flash" - besides "Get the F#%$ out of my way!"

Cupcar

Here's one for Porsche wavers. My buddy came by the other day to show me his new M3. Of course I took it for a ride, limited to 5500 RPM because it was new, so no comment on performance. But we came head on to another new M3 driver and he started waving and flashing at me, I was forced to return wave even though it's not my car!!!! Are the M3 guys the way Porsche guy's used to be? No Porsche has waved to me for years here in So. Cal.

Collie

Okay, I wouldn't get to bent out of shape about the people in the newer Porsches not flashing or waving. As a matter of fact since the ones that don't are most likely leasing them or driving them as a status symbol and will be tired of them in a few years, I would rather them keep thier eyes on the road and thier hands on the wheel and keep that Porsche in tip top shape so that a real enthusiest like most of us can ****** it up and give it the respect it diserves and drive it like it was built to be driven after they are tired of it or it breaks down that first time. I know I am thankful to the guy I bought, no I mean stole, my 91 C4 from with mearly 35000 miles, brand new condition, he didn't even know where the cruise was. I am quite sure he wasn't doing any waving or flashing.