The fable of the C2 TL
12-05-2002, 07:04 AM
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The fable of the C2 TL
Hi everyone!
I came across an adwertisement in the German Auto Motor Sport, where a private person is selling a "964 C2 Turbo Look" as far as I know, this model never existed as an official model.
So the question is: Does anyone have a picture of such a car? Was it a special order from the "Porsche Spezial Werke"? Any info would be welcome
Greets THOMAS
I came across an adwertisement in the German Auto Motor Sport, where a private person is selling a "964 C2 Turbo Look" as far as I know, this model never existed as an official model.
So the question is: Does anyone have a picture of such a car? Was it a special order from the "Porsche Spezial Werke"? Any info would be welcome
Greets THOMAS
12-05-2002, 07:43 AM
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Dear Thomas,
The C2 TL Cabriolet is a genuine model. C2 TL Coupes or Targas are non factory conversions. Apart from the RS 3.8 and RSR 3.8 of course.
There were also 15 TL Speedsters.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
The C2 TL Cabriolet is a genuine model. C2 TL Coupes or Targas are non factory conversions. Apart from the RS 3.8 and RSR 3.8 of course.
There were also 15 TL Speedsters.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
12-05-2002, 10:16 AM
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Thanks for the reply Adrian!
Where all C2 Coupes TL non Factory buildt cars or was one able to order one from factory, provided a substantial amount of cash?
Cheers Thomas
Where all C2 Coupes TL non Factory buildt cars or was one able to order one from factory, provided a substantial amount of cash?
Cheers Thomas
12-06-2002, 04:24 AM
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To the best of my knowledge the factory never produced from Werk 1 or Porsche Exclusive a C2 TL coupe for any customer. The only ones I have seen are clearly aftermarket conversions. Remembering that I have a photo from the factory of every model of 964 produced including the one offs except one.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: I have also seen the factory photos of the rarest of the rare, a 965 but was not able to get a copy. They are destined for another book which will also blow the mind of any Porsche enthusiast when it is released.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: I have also seen the factory photos of the rarest of the rare, a 965 but was not able to get a copy. They are destined for another book which will also blow the mind of any Porsche enthusiast when it is released.
12-06-2002, 05:43 AM
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Tanks for the Info Adrian!
When I was reading the advertised car in Auto Motor Sport, I thought I found the Holly Grale, and started to think about selling my C2 to get the TL C2. What was a bit curious about the advert was the mention "WTL" which in german means Werks-Turbo-Look. That was the thing that got my attention, but then I started to think and came to the conclusion that it was much to curious since the asked price seemed low at about 35000.-Euro.
About the 965, In french language the designation 965 is largely accepted as the denomination for the 964T2 in 3.3 and 3.6. Even if the French press Knows that it's not the correct denomination for the car. So What is a 965 (I dont't want to see any photo since I know that it's for your future book), but if you be so kind to just describe in a few words what the 965 was meant to be? Would be great
Regards THOMAS
When I was reading the advertised car in Auto Motor Sport, I thought I found the Holly Grale, and started to think about selling my C2 to get the TL C2. What was a bit curious about the advert was the mention "WTL" which in german means Werks-Turbo-Look. That was the thing that got my attention, but then I started to think and came to the conclusion that it was much to curious since the asked price seemed low at about 35000.-Euro.
About the 965, In french language the designation 965 is largely accepted as the denomination for the 964T2 in 3.3 and 3.6. Even if the French press Knows that it's not the correct denomination for the car. So What is a 965 (I dont't want to see any photo since I know that it's for your future book), but if you be so kind to just describe in a few words what the 965 was meant to be? Would be great
Regards THOMAS
12-06-2002, 07:36 AM
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Dear Thomas,
The 965 is not in my book. I could not get the photos. Not high enough up in the food chain. I have seen them though but could not run fast enough.
The original turbo concept to accompany the 964 series was to be the 965. It was a 959 wrapped up in a 964 body (very basic description). AWD, twin turbo the whole 9 yards. However it turned out to be too expensive at the time and was scrapped. Porsche could not at the time afford to build this thing.
It was replaced by a cheaper alternative which was the 1989 Turbo engine bolted into a 964, retaining the CIS but now with what I electronic support. The successor of the 965 was in fact to follow in 1996 when the 993TT was released. The TT was what the 965 was supposed to be back in 1990. In fact from what I have learned the 993TT is one much better machine than the 965 would have ever been. The 965 by the way has been destroyed. Only photographs remain along with a few special parts not all of which were just used on the 964 Turbo. The 968CS, M030 and Turbos got some stuff from the 965 as well.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS WTL or Werks Turbolook is the abreviation for "aftermarket conversion". I bet this advert was in Singen Germany nicht wahr.
The 965 is not in my book. I could not get the photos. Not high enough up in the food chain. I have seen them though but could not run fast enough.
The original turbo concept to accompany the 964 series was to be the 965. It was a 959 wrapped up in a 964 body (very basic description). AWD, twin turbo the whole 9 yards. However it turned out to be too expensive at the time and was scrapped. Porsche could not at the time afford to build this thing.
It was replaced by a cheaper alternative which was the 1989 Turbo engine bolted into a 964, retaining the CIS but now with what I electronic support. The successor of the 965 was in fact to follow in 1996 when the 993TT was released. The TT was what the 965 was supposed to be back in 1990. In fact from what I have learned the 993TT is one much better machine than the 965 would have ever been. The 965 by the way has been destroyed. Only photographs remain along with a few special parts not all of which were just used on the 964 Turbo. The 968CS, M030 and Turbos got some stuff from the 965 as well.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS WTL or Werks Turbolook is the abreviation for "aftermarket conversion". I bet this advert was in Singen Germany nicht wahr.
12-06-2002, 09:04 AM
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Adrian next time I'll rent you a sprinting trainer, I'll also sponsorise you for the sprint shoes, just let me know in time 
. The 965 would have been a damn wild thing if it would have been built. Shame for Porsche that they where in such a financial bad situation in the begining of the 90's.
Thanks anyway for the Info, appreciated... I just think double T, 4 wheel drive....what a car it would have been....
Greets THOMAS
. The 965 would have been a damn wild thing if it would have been built. Shame for Porsche that they where in such a financial bad situation in the begining of the 90's.Thanks anyway for the Info, appreciated... I just think double T, 4 wheel drive....what a car it would have been....
Greets THOMAS
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12-06-2002, 05:53 PM
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adrian
Just for the record . WTL is the abr. for Factory Turbo look and means original . Here in Germany a 965 is a 964 Turbo and the Partnumbers start with 965 instead of 964 .
harald
Just for the record . WTL is the abr. for Factory Turbo look and means original . Here in Germany a 965 is a 964 Turbo and the Partnumbers start with 965 instead of 964 .
harald
12-06-2002, 08:04 PM
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[quote] They are destined for another book which will also blow the mind of any Porsche enthusiast when it is released. <hr></blockquote>
Adrian... it isn't fair to tease us. You have been promising your 964 book for many a month. First things first. You can brag about the next book after I have your 964 book in my anxious hands... <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
Adrian... it isn't fair to tease us. You have been promising your 964 book for many a month. First things first. You can brag about the next book after I have your 964 book in my anxious hands... <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
12-07-2002, 07:23 AM
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Dear Bob,
The book I refer to is not my book. This book has nothing to do with me I just happen to know the unknowable as somebody claimed yesterday. I was asked a question about some photographs that are to be used in this book. They blew my mind. They were actual shots of the 965. I only mentioned something because there are people who genuinely believe the 965 never existed. I have seen the factory shots proving beyond any doubt that this 965 really did exist. No I could not get them for my book. I cannot say anymore because to do so will be a betrayal of trust. The wait for this stuff is frustrating and believe you me, it is doubly frustrating for myself.
Anyway, yes it was a tease but it is as much a tease for me as well. I have had these photos in my hands. I know what is out there but we all just have to wait. Anyway I cannot hang around too long I have to place some more artwork.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: It was also pointed out to me that in 2001 (does anyone remember 2001) I said that I was told that the 965 was in storage. This is incorrect. I was told early this year 2002 (I wish I did not remember anything from this year either) that the 965 had actually been destroyed in crash testing.
The book I refer to is not my book. This book has nothing to do with me I just happen to know the unknowable as somebody claimed yesterday. I was asked a question about some photographs that are to be used in this book. They blew my mind. They were actual shots of the 965. I only mentioned something because there are people who genuinely believe the 965 never existed. I have seen the factory shots proving beyond any doubt that this 965 really did exist. No I could not get them for my book. I cannot say anymore because to do so will be a betrayal of trust. The wait for this stuff is frustrating and believe you me, it is doubly frustrating for myself.
Anyway, yes it was a tease but it is as much a tease for me as well. I have had these photos in my hands. I know what is out there but we all just have to wait. Anyway I cannot hang around too long I have to place some more artwork.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: It was also pointed out to me that in 2001 (does anyone remember 2001) I said that I was told that the 965 was in storage. This is incorrect. I was told early this year 2002 (I wish I did not remember anything from this year either) that the 965 had actually been destroyed in crash testing.
12-07-2002, 01:28 PM
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[quote] that the 965 had actually been destroyed in crash testing. <hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> Geez, Adrian... doesn't that make you feel sick to your stomach?
About your book, I'm just goofing with you... Thanks for your insights as always... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> Geez, Adrian... doesn't that make you feel sick to your stomach?
About your book, I'm just goofing with you... Thanks for your insights as always... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
12-09-2002, 12:00 PM
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Sonny
Thanks for the picture, it's a drawing so the accurancy may be doubtfull, the only person whon can compare is actually Adrian as he has actually seen the real pictures of the beast. He's the only one who could tell us if the drawing from Sonny looks like the destroyed car.
So Adrian it's your turn!!! just say YES/NO is the picture from Sonny accurate?
Cheers Thomas
Thanks for the picture, it's a drawing so the accurancy may be doubtfull, the only person whon can compare is actually Adrian as he has actually seen the real pictures of the beast. He's the only one who could tell us if the drawing from Sonny looks like the destroyed car.
So Adrian it's your turn!!! just say YES/NO is the picture from Sonny accurate?
Cheers Thomas
02-05-2003, 09:26 AM
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Sorry to drag up an old thread, but the 965 thing interests me. The link to the picture is dead, does anyone have a picture of the 965 which they can post?
Any other info would be useful, too.
Many thanks!
Phil
Any other info would be useful, too.
Many thanks!
Phil
02-05-2003, 09:50 AM
#15
Phil
This is the only thing I have - it isn't an actual photograph, artist's impression perhaps? Adrian I am sure could tell us whether the real thing looked like this:
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/965.jpg" alt=" - " />
This is the only thing I have - it isn't an actual photograph, artist's impression perhaps? Adrian I am sure could tell us whether the real thing looked like this:
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/965.jpg" alt=" - " />