chas911

Hi board, I need your help. I am contemplating coverting my 964 race car to cup car specs. Specifically, to run in the Stock/Prepared class of PCA. I am not sure what PCA tech inspection will allow for interior specs (carpeting, rear side panels, rear decking, heater control unit, radio, etc.). Does anyone have any pictures (or point me in the right direction) of the interior of the 964 cup car. If not a 964 a 993 would do. I prefer to get pics of a car that is running in class C or D.

John Miles

Hmmmm,
Can point you to Melvin's European RS Cup car. May not help though.
Goto the Cup car difference page from the Variants page from the 964 History page on my site. Melvin's interior is completely stripped.

www.porsche964.co.uk

Bill Gregory

If you haven't already, you should read the 2001 PCA rules at http://www.pca.org/pca/clubrace/ruleinfo.htm Under stock/prepared classes, for example, it says "Interiors, with the exception of seats (which may be replaced but not removed)and the panels affected by the installation of the roll bar or roll cage, must be as delivered by the factory." Earlier in the document, it also says that "Floor mats must be removed. Drivers side carpet can be removed."

If you have access to Up-Fixin or older Pano's, there was a great article entitled "Lightweight Carrera Confusion" which compared the 964 C2 to the RSA to the Carrera RS to the US Cup Car 964 in quite a detailed manner. It's in Vol 10 of Upfixin or the May 1993 issue of Pano. Plus, there are several web sites with pictures of the US cup cars.

If you have questions on what you can or can't do, Tom Charlesworth is the PCA tech and rules contact, who can be reached at TCharleswo@aol.com .

chas911

Bill, thanks for the reference. I have read the rule book numerous times, but if the factory did not put in carpeting or rear seats etc. must I put them in for race in the stock/prepared class.

Melvins cup car pics were helpful, it appears that there was no carpeting, knee brace, radio or heater controls. I would still like to see pics or a cup car which is currently being campaigned to see what was allowed.

Bill Gregory

I think you'll find the US Cup Cars were delivered to the retail market with full Carrera RS interior trim. Here's an online link to the article "Lightweight Carrera Confusion": http://www.lynchracing.net/cups/cup.htm Note there is an M003 Competition option, which may play some part in what you want to do. Run your questions by Tom Charlesworth, he's a good resource.

chas911

Bill, you have been a terrific help.
thanks

Cupcar

I'm not sure what the class issues are for you but as Bill said the American Cup cars were sold with essentially Euro RS interiors but with electric windows and airbags and standard seats, also a "luggage dump" panel was installed over the rear seat area. The RS carpeting is thin and was not glued down very well in the American cars. The carpeting was glued directly to sheetmetal with no interveneing padding. If you want a factory description of the necessary brackets that have to be removed to make an RS interior see the Carrera 2 shop manual, body section:"Scope of conversion for 911 Carrera RS body in white" starting on page 50-101. All steps to convert a body in white to an N/GT RS are here. A true Carrera Cup racing car has no carpeting inside car whatsoever (only painted metal) and have a wooden floorboard on drivers side only. The door panels are like RS America, dash is stock but with modifications to clear roll cage. Hope this helps.

chas911

CupCar, do you know where I might be able to find the Carrera 2 manuals. I presume I can order them at my local Porsche shop. I am sure that this would be helpful.

Bill Gregory

Cupcar is referring to the Factory 964 shop manuals, around $320 at discount for the 7 volume set Don't know if you can order individual volumes.

Cupcar

chas911 try this url for literature http://www.my-porsche.com

Greg Fishman

How much difference is there between a US Cup car and a European Cup Car? From my understanding (having raced against both) they are both in "D" class within PCA Club racing.
Greg

chas911

I dont believe there is a significant difference between a US or European Cup car. They do both run in either "D" or "C" as prepared. Why do you ask.

I got word that if you update/backdate any model, ALL technical details must be exact. Even if the converted car carries more weight and has no performance advantage. I specifically asked about the power steering and sunroof, since the cup car had manual steering and no sunroof. It appears that you must remove the power steering and document such. I am not sure how to address the sunroof. I was asked to call Alwin Springer at Andial, to verify the technical details and how to document the changes to provide the tech inspectors with such changes. I thought that this was going to be an easy conversion since the car has no interior and weighs approx 2800-2900lbs. I guess it might be easier to put the interior back in and run stock class!

Greg Fishman

I didn't know if there were any significant hp or performance differences, especially since the US cars are rarer and much more expensive. I have seen some prices for the European Cars in the low $40K range where the US cars are $70K or so. If you were wanting to race one of these it would seem to be a smarter financial decision to go with the European version. The only 964 Cup car that I have seen didn't have an interior and it ran in D stock, if you ever see a 993 Cup Car that was pretty much how it was done.

Greg

Cupcar

There is much confusion about the American Carrera Cup cars. The 45 American "Carrera Cup Edition" cars were essentially a Euro RS with airbags, alarm, US lighting, US bumpers, no bucket seats and aluminum not magnesium wheels. Twenty five of these cars were converted by Andial to full Carrera Cup race spec with different springs and struts, stripped interior, single bucket seat, straight through exhaust etc. to make a race car. These mods were reversed after the series failed to get off the ground financially. The cars were then sold as street cars by PCNA. So,there only transiently existed 25 true American Carrera Cup racing cars but these were never sold. To compare a European Carrera Cup racing car, which is a race car based on the Euro RS, to an American "Carrera Cup Edition" is comparing apples to oranges since the American car is closer to the Euro RS than the Carrera Cup race car.

J richard

Heres a page with some good pics, specs and a contact for more info on one of the 45 cup cars: http://p-car.com/porsche/gary/cup.html

Regards