Mucho discussion, as always, re HP mods, chips, hot films yadda yadda.

What do we think the realisable HP from a normally aspirated (ie no turbo or supercharger)964 is??

What do we think is streetable HP, ie, without ridiculously high lift cams etc, so we can drive to & from work??

I will open the bidding at 290 - 300 HP (flywheel).

 

Well I know of a 964 RS that has achieved the 100bhp per litre from a n/a 3.6 - so I will go for around 313rwhp. I think the owners name is Adrian Palmer.

 

930 motorsport get 360BHP from their C2 RS


[quote]Originally posted by johnfm:
<strong>Mucho discussion, as always, re HP mods, chips, hot films yadda yadda.

What do we think the realisable HP from a normally aspirated (ie no turbo or supercharger)964 is??

What do we think is streetable HP, ie, without ridiculously high lift cams etc, so we can drive to & from work??

I will open the bidding at 290 - 300 HP (flywheel).</strong><hr></blockquote>

 

Yeah, but how streetable is it??

 

Adrian has spent a fortune at 930Motorsport getting these figures and they are completely unsusupported by anything other than his & their claims. If this figure had another dyno report plus costs then I wold start to belive it might be worthwhile!!

A full 3.8ltr converion can get you 305bhp plus 300 ft lbs of torque guaranteed but at a cost of around £8-£9K !!! I have experienced this and its astounding!


Andrew
1989 C4

 

A good and local friend of mine who recently toasted his motor, due to a broken dist. belt (see the pics @ <a href="http://www.porsche964.co.uk" target="_blank">www.porsche964.co.uk</a> ) has had a complete rebuild done with RS heads and factory 3.6 pist./cyl. - this, coupled with a performance exhaust system and a chip, customized to his particular application...yielded around 320 HP.

He says it took a little from the low end, but the top end of each gear is incredible!

 

johnfm

Good thread but your question re 'how streetable' the car is, is too subjective. Something that might be 'streetable' for me may be absolutely horrendous for you - or vice versa.

I don't think the 360bhp conversion at 930 is going to be all that easy to drive round town - but then I guess that if you had it done you would make sure you didn't have to!!

 

Guys,
I think if you settle for 300HP via a proper engine kit available from various sources including Porsche, you will remain on the safe side. HP output is not the only consideration here. Torque, Power curves Transmission strength have to be considered. How it drives normally is also very important.
You also have to ask the question why?. If you are tracking the 964 okay thats the answer but on the street you need safety and reliability. I also warn you all that deep pockets are needed once you start to stress things. Why not be happy with 250HP, do a few DEs, learn to handle the 964 and just simply enjoy it without the extra cost. If you are worried about getting beaten on the street. No matter what you do to a NA 964 there are still heaps of autos out there which in a straight drag race will kick your butt. This will never change. Save your money for a good Porsche touring holiday, much more fun.
If you really want the extra HP use a kit or take the engine to 3.8L but be prepared to pay big bucks.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

 

I must admit I'm perfectly happy with the current 250 HP, but am interested in methods people have used to squeeze more "streetable" HP.(sorry for the terminology Christer, but you know what I mean)

With respect to RS heads etc, unless they have massive valves, I can't believe that the heads and 3.6 l Cylinders, even with a chip & exhaust mod, would realise 320 HP. Call me a cynic, but 70 extra HP is not gainable from head design & exhaust, unless you mean new cams, throttle bodies etc.

Anyway, just thought I'd ask the question!!

 

Dear John,
The vast majority of questions asked on this forum are good ones. In the end it is up to each owner to follow their own path. I like to see all the facts and knowledge expressed. This will help people in their quest or help them re-define their quest. In the end it really comes down to value for money and I do not call $US208.00/HP increase as being value for money unless you are actually competing. There also comes a point where reliability is reduced and of course things like kats get burned out sooner, engine stress is increased. More HP, more heat generated, when does engine cooling become inadequate and the list goes on. Not forgetting fuel consumption increases which affects running costs. What about maintenance. When do you change the oil. Can you run a consistent extra 50HP or 100HP and keep the same maintenance intervals. Increased power is one thing, what about the support systems that might need to be changed. Ride height, suspension, tyres. Increased tyre wear is going to happen, increasing ownership costs. The people complain about how high the cost of Porsche ownership is.
Racers know this stuff, the average street driver does not. Hence all the answers to your good question. This stuff remains in the archives so future readers may also benefit from these questions,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

 

Morning Adrian

thanks for your reply. I can't justify hacking about a car which was developed by some pretty clever German blokes - but I also get the feeling that, as they are selling a high demand product, they have to build in a great degree of reliability. It wouldn't surprise me if reasonable (say 30 - 40 HP) gains could be made, while retaining street usability etc, by following some performance engine building basics, but I think it is a pipe dream to think that a grand spent on a chip & cat bypass is going to reap 25 HP. The chip, as I understand it, is controlling injection timing & fule quantity and spark timing. These are crucially basic parameters, but I can't see how the standard chip can be that far out. Surely, to gain the 25HP soem people claim, there needs to be an increase in the mass of fuel/air burning in the pots. I can see how a different exhaust may slightly improve airflow through the engine, but without bigger valves & altered cam timings, I just can't see where the extra 25 HP is coming from??

Thats my .02265 euro.
P.S&gt; How did an aussie find himself in Switzerland, anyhow??

 

John

You make a good point

[quote] but I think it is a pipe dream to think that a grand spent on a chip & cat bypass is going to reap 25 HP <hr></blockquote>

Even on the RS, Porsche themselves "optimised" performance my fitting a different chip and "only" managed to liberate an additional 10 bhp.

 

Dear John,
How did I end up here. Simply, I was invited. I received a letter Christmas 1992 (we were living in Darwin at the time) inviting me to take up the position that I currently have. I said who is paying. They said, they will pay for everything. Adrian and family sold up back home and moved. That was nine years ago and the rest is history.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

 

Darwin to Switzerland!! From Stubbies & thongs to thermals!!

Don't suppose there were too many 964 owners in Darwin!!

 

If I had the money (2 x kids + mortgage + wife + expensive photography habit.........)

I would like to try applying some basics to the flat 6. Need more air/fuel mass per bang to get more HP. So, bigger valves/injectors/fuel pump etc would be first stop PLUS new cam to maximise volumetric effy. New engine management to control injectors/timing etc. What about some form of VRAM for the 964??

Think it is possible to extract significant HP this way without making car undrivable (my soon to be brother in law has just bought Lambo Countach - it bareley idles at less than 2000 rpm. Noisy, not much to look at - a bit like the owner!!)

Look forward to buying experiment car - ie cheap LHD 964, so I can fiddle with the bits without ruining my daily driver.