Riccardo

Hello Guys,

I was having a conversation with Christer earlier today, discussing about mods to our 964s and we were wondering how we could loose some of our 964s weight. Apart from the obvious solution of actually loosing some weight ourselves, what can we do?

I remember reading somewhere that the standard seats weigh something like 30kgs each. That would mean that, just by replacing the front seats with some lighter ones (say 7kgs each) would save 46kgs. Then we could remove the rear seats, the spare wheel, the soundproofing etc...

So, what we would like to find out is what we could remove from the car which would be easy to revert back in case we sell and which we might even be able to do at home, without the need of special tools. Any experience out there?

Finally, does anyone know the weight of the following items:
- front seats
- rear seats
- engine soundproofing
- rear wiper
- rear bumper center section
- space saver wheel
- standard door panels
- front bonnet

Arthur.

You guys are really funny <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> You gave me a good laugh when listing the rear wiper to save serious weight... I love this forum

Arthur.

OK, I'll post something serious. I suppose you read the article in 911 World on the RS4 lightweight. I don't have it here, but I remember there was substantial weight-saving by leaving out a lot of (unnecessary) stuff, or by replacing parts by lighter ones.

George Stevens

Riccardo

Trimming the fat is the easiest way to extract effectively more power by increasing the power to weight ratio.

By reducing the unsprung weight you will also improve the braking, I would suggest removing the following

Interior soundproofing (under carpets)
electric windows
central locking
swap interior door panels for RS style lightweight panels
remove rear seats and side panels
Fit lighter alloy wheels (dymag or BBS)
Fit fibreglass front lid, doors and one piece engine lid with integral spoiler
swap 5 litre washer bottle for 1 litre bottle
sunroof motor
rear wiper and motor
fit Recaro pole position seats

greg1234

But the driver is often overlooked. Same goes for motorbikes. I'm easily 4 stone overweight, which equates to... what.. nearly 25kg...!

Christer

OK, first of all my thanks to Riccardo for starting this off.

Arthur, thanks for your really useful comments. Our question: how to save weight? Your answer effectively was: to remove stuff....brilliant!!

George - I am not getting rid of my rear wiper for anyone. I have already gotten rid of the front fenders/wings - what more do you want? Blood?

Greg, it's not really realistic to lose weight yourself. I mean I could probably lose the rear seats in half an hour - they must be 30kgs between them. Mind you there is amputation...

OK, so does anybody know what the rear seats etc. actually weigh...but thanks for the tips so far.

Adrian

Guys,
Having done this myself (well in part a few more bits to go yet) to make serious meaningful weight reductions you need to have deep pockets and some patience with a touch of ruthless.
The rear seats weigh a pittance. Just remove the lower cushions and the back rests and install a lightweight marine plywood cover.
The items which will save you weight are,
Remove previously installed fixed rear tails and re-install retractable spoiler.
10Kgs
Remove all underfloor soundproofing and associated water
31Kgs (was for me anyway)
Replace Hood/Bonnet/Trunk lid with Kevlar version weighing only 2.2kgs. (big bucks)
Replace engine lid with Kevlar version.
Replace all fenders/wings and bumper bars with Kevlar version. (more big bucks)
Remove the electrics from the doors and replace with RS system. (A job I do want to do)
5kgs max saving.
Replace front seats and remove all associated electrics.
2.5 kgs saving on the electrics not sure about the seats but with all the race fittings required I doubt if much of any savings can be made.
Remove all side and rear glass and replace with lightweight version. (big bucks)
5kgs saving approx (Porsche figure by the way)
Remove front windshield washer tank and associated plumbing (nobody thinks about this little puppy, full of water weighs a lot).
Around 10kgs saving.
Remove all airconditioning system including condenser and fan assembly. (my next job)
21kgs saved but requires full wheel alignment and geometry check. Adjustment will be required and maybe some ballast which will reduce the weight saved.
Rear window wiper motor assembly
2kgs max
When all is said and done and you may reduce the weight by 100kgs and really serious down 200kgs.
For me, remove what does not cost any money and make sure you can reinstall a replacement later if you wish to sell the 964.
Remember though. Weight Reductions as proposed above will cause a major loss of driver comfort. If rattles bother you, do not try and cut the weight. If you think it rattles now, wait until you start removing things.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

PS: You can spend some really big bucks on getting the weight of the 964 down but there is no point in doing this and then having two people who are somewhat overweight driving around in it. Or loading it up with baggage for a trip. Radical weight reductions are for the serious track guy who needs a road car as well, all in one.

Christer

Adrian

What about getting rid of parts of the exhaust system? A cat-bypass seems to save around 40lbs and off the right end of the car as well. I don't have aircon so I am OK there.

Christer

Jerrygreene

am in process of removing cat & main muffler form a 964 carrera cup. Will be using the secondary muffler as my back pressuer, as it appears to flow the same as the Cat. I will weight all bits
and post later as to what the diff is, as well as what I hope to be in quicker lap times as well.

Also, there appears to be a aluminum hub system for the front of car that was made by Porsche for the 964 RSR I belive. More unsprung pounds shaved.

George Stevens

Adrian makes a very good point

If you are going down the route of shaving weight you need to be sure that what you ultimately end up with is a better car.

The reason why I have such a love hate relationship with mine is because it has such a jekyl and hyde character.

Some days it is the best car I have ever driven, period. Other days it is a noisy, harsh, uncomfortable, unpleasant companion.

What's good for the track is not necessarily good for the road!!

<img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

johnfm

to reduce driver weight, install tiptronix 'box and remove your left leg!!!

johnfm

Oh, that petrol tank thnigy & associated petrol weigh a bit too!!


I'll stop now - I'm being silly!! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

Arthur.

Christer, it's remarkable how simple solutions to tough problems can be. I really did impress myself with this brilliant answer

jonfkaminsky

Adrian-

I would be very interested in your Air-con removal. Mine works so marginally anyway, and since I am in the North I rarely if ever need it. I'd like to remove, but very cleanly so that a next owner may reinstall it if they so choose.

Do you have a plan yet?

TIA,
jon

Cupcar

Heres what I have weighed on an accurate scale to nearest quarter pound:

-Primary muffler 23.5 pounds, primary bypass 7.75 pounds=net saved 15.75
-Secondary Muffler 23.25 pounds, secondary bypass 3,27 pounds=net saving 19.5 pounds
-Standard seat 52.5 pounds,
-RS bucket seat 30.5 pounds,
-Front bumper beam with European mounting tubes 13.25 pounds (easily removed makes you vulnerable)
-Airbag steering wheel 9 pounds
-Momo steering wheel 4 pounds
-Engine belly pan, insulation walls around engine and mounting hardware 14 pounds
-American rear bumper beam 16 pounds
-European RS bumper beam 11.5 pounds
-American rear bumper plastic 5 pounds
-European rear bumper plastic 3 pounds
-Spare tire 29 pounds
-Rear heater blower 6.5 pounds
-Carrera Cup blower bypass pipe 0.5 pounds