MelissaM

Wow, this board's been very quiet today. I thought I'd try to rattle everyone's cage by getting a little philisophical discussion going.

In your own words, what makes a Porsche owner a poseur? (I hope I spelled it correctly.)

What makes a person a Porsche enthusiast?

OK, I need to finish some work, so I'll have to provide my definitions a bit later.

Have fun!

-- Melissa

GeoC2cab

High,
I think enthusiasts can be in many diffrent forms, Racing, collecting, cruising(myself),
satisfaction,pride,and keeping ur car as new shows enthusiasm. Favoring the marque as a whole(all models)shows enthusiasm. When you polish ur Porsche and not being able to wait to put the wax on; and actually have fun at it;enthusiast. The best I can explain my own enthusiasm; I am the original owner of my 1991 cabriolet GP white on black; every Sunday for the last 10 yrs. without fail I get up at 5-6 a.m.(depending on season),my wife will stay with the kids and I'll pull the top down and I'm off twoards the sunrise, no radio, just that flat six purring in my ear and I head to the farms and forrests of southwestern New york, plotting new courses, stopping at overlooks, crossing Mountain passes, meeting new folks, I start to head back home 5 hours later,usually clocking over 200 miles. When I arrive the family is up and as I pull into my driveway I give the horn some toots and my boys(1-6yrs,twins-4yrs)come running to the back windows to look out and yell Dada's home!!(they're going nuts)as I put my spoiler up manually to let the engine cool they come running out bk to ck the car out. It is my dream to teach each one of them how to drive it when they get old enough and when I,m to old to drive myself, they will take turns driving me on the same roads, in that same 1991 cab.
As for the posuers; they know who they are.
Is it Sunday yet???

Bill Gregory

Melissa,

I had to check the spelling too. Poseur, courtesy of Webster is "a person who assumes attitudes or manners merely for their effect upon others".

While there, an enthusiast is "...an ardent supporter; a religious fanatic or zealot".

Having just bought a C2, I've considered those I've run across, and I think there's a broader spectrum.

On the one hand, you do have the poseur. Without offending anyone, I'd suggest the poseur likely leases a new model of Porsche. While he/she may enjoy driving it, there's no soul or Porsche cognizance to go with it. Lease over, move on to another brand. Probably not a regular on rennlist

There's the casual owner, who enjoys the marque, may have owned several different models over the years, and may rely on the Porsche dealer for maintenance.

I'd suggest there are various shades of enthusiasts, and one is not any better or worse than another. The enthusiast cares. The enthusiast participates. The enthusiast shares. One enthusiast may be rabid about keeping his 911 in concours condition, and may even display and participate in concours events. Another may be intently focused on using her 911 for rally's, autocross, drivers education, racing, touring, whatever. Another may just be proud to have stepped up to owning an example of the Porsche automotive family.

Another may never own a Porsche, but be a fanatic about some aspect of Porsches, like racing, for example. Is that boy in the wheelchair who Michael gave a ride to an enthusiast? The one who could list all the pertinent speeds and feeds about his Turbo - Of course!

And last, but not least, the enthusiast is most likely to flash their lights at fellow Porsche owners.

vilhelm

There is nothing better than driving and feeling the road in the best automobile in the world.

Jay H

Gotta agree with George's and Bill's comments above. I'll add some of my own (and a few I've seen over the years)...

Enthusiast:
- Won't leave home with a dirty Porsche.
- When getting the Porsche serviced, skips the dealer (or independant) service manager's desk and heads right for the shop area to talk to the mechanic.
- Knows your Porsche mechanic by his/her first name and considers them 'family'.
- Putting a 3rd coat of wax on the 911 "just 'cause" it's fun.
- Enjoys seeing and can appreciate a mint '79 924.
- Flashes your headlights at any model of Porsche.
- Pulls up at the local concours with a mint '86 Carrera with 135,000 miles on it and wins his class and the peoples choice award (no, this is not me...).

Poseur:
- 2 year lease on a new 996 Tiptronic that gets traded off after 16 months on a new 5 series BMW (I'm sure I'm offending someone).
- Has their new 911 or Boxster all full of salt and road sand in the middle of January at the mall sandwiched between other minivans and SUV's.
- Trades the custom ordered Twin Turbo (that was kept for 8 months) for a new M3 for the hell of it.
- The guy with the 9xx that hasn't been waxed since it was new nor been vacuumed out for 4 years (let me have it for a few hours, I'll clean it for free!).

Tabor

Jay, I would like to disagree with some of your comments.

I do all my own work, and know a lot about my Porsche. However, I will leave home when it is dirty. This is because it is my daily driver, and I refuse to wash it more than once a week.

Also, I do not take great car in making sure the carpet is clean. This is because it was trashed when I got it.

I own and drive my car for the handling, for this reason I consider myself an enthusiast. I have also brought my Porsche back from the brink of death (being parted out).

Jacks911

Melissa - I ask you - am I an "E" or a "P"?

There is little opportunity to "Pose" on Rennlist ... unless all you do is post your cars picture ...with Yourself in front of it.
Enthusiasts really enjoy the Porsche for what it is ... Unique ... rather than for what others may think. I love the look, all those lovely curves! I love the driving, all those lovely curves! I love the books and the articles, the race wins and the many models (of Porsches that is), and I love the little contoversies, C2 or 4, 964 or 993, oil leaks, valve noise, Air cooled (or not), they are all wonderful cars, that nobody will ever copy!

And yes - I think the 964 Cab w/Tip is the very best! [ for me .... ]

Jay H

Tabor:

No problem on disagreeing with my cheesy list above. Hopefully you were not offended. There are different levels of enthusiam for everyone. My 'enthusiast' list should have also included those guys (gals) that can drop their own motors, replace clutches, etc. I wish I had the time and knowledge to do that stuff...

My reference above was to the cars that literally have not been cleaned or maintained in years. Also, that's great that you brought back an unloved Porsche.


Disclaimer: There is certainly nothing wrong with leasing/buying a Porsche for a few years and then moving on to another marque. Those individuals help put one more used Porsche on the market for guys like me that can't afford new ones.

Irishdriver

Poseur: the car is perfectly polished but needs a quart of oil and he (she) doesn't know.

Enthusiast: hasn't washed the car for a week but still gets a top three place in his (her) class a the slalom as it's mechanically perfect.

Poseur: only has a cabrio and drives top down in crowed areas with dark glasses if the weather is anything less than a hurricane.

Enthusiast: must have a coupe (stiffer you know!) and looks for empty twisty roads.

Some where in between is the Targa Owner.

GeoC2cab

High,
I.D., whats wrong w/only having a cabrio and driving the empty twisties? My cab see's nothing but this, no nights out, no trips to the shore, no cruises past the high school, my car is perfectly polished and the oil level is right in the middle of the marks(on the stick),never placed a top 3 in the slalom(havent tried,could care less) but its mechanically perfect,top is down in 38 degrees(not sure what that is in celsius)however I'll leave the top up once in a while so I can get that 160 mph run, the model of the car has nothin to do with posing, I disagree w/ ur comments 100%.

jrb964

Just a short thought. Anybody that is on rennlist is an enthusiast not a poseur.

You gotta love this marque to be here!!!

jrb964

Roygarth

I have been a Porsche enthusiast since 1972 when at age 11, in order to receive free literature, I signed up for 911 test drive at London Motorshow. A week later local P dealer sent driver round with 911S round for my test drive. Mum told him I was at school!

Dream realised 4 weeks ago when I bought 1990 C4 coupe.

But I am suspicious of all front engined Porsche, not sure about Cabriolets and very wary of Porsche drivers wearing sunglasses unless sun is very low in the sky!

Having said the above I am not adverse to driving down the Kings Road in Chelsea on a Saturday afternoon!

Piers

Riccardo

Piers

That is posing IMO. I used to live just off the Kings Rd up to v recently and it was always my nightmare to get out of the house to drive. I often parked a bit further away (this not having to get onto the main road) just to avoid all the traffic and Saturday rif raf down that way. Plus, with all the other amazing cars down the Kings rd nobody will be looking at a 964! The only reason I can think of going is if you are looking at the girls walking down the road...

Irishdriver

Ok so maybe it was dangerous to generalise about the linking between the model (coupe, targa, cabrio) and the poseur/enthusiast (Sorry Geo C2 Cab!!) but the point I was trying to make is if you buy the car for the image it projects - you're a poseur.

Also you're contributing to Porsches having an image related to "Rich B*****ds", "Flash Gits" or whatever it is in your local terminology.

I define enthusiasts as those who have and drive the car simply for their own selfish pleasure of owning and using one of the ultimate driving machines on the planet.

There are degrees of showman (woman?) in us all and we all like a bit of attention but when the projected image is more important to you than your driving pleasure...

......you've moved over to the Dark Side of the Force.

Christer

I definitely think that the oily bits are more important than the cosmetics - my car has a a couple of small 'dimple' dents and one scratch underneath the spoiler at the back. I am stirred to my soul by the driving experience and don't put too much emphasis on whether the car looks perfect.

Having said that, I still wash it every couple of weeks and apply Zymol every 6-8 weeks.

I don't know where that puts me, but I just enjoy the experience and hope to do so for as long as I can.