Define poseur and enthusiast
11-12-2001, 11:56 AM
#16
Racer
High,
I agree gentlemen, no matter the condition u keep ur car, or how many Porsche shirts u own, the bottom line is the way your soul is stirred when you turn the key....
No Substitute
I agree gentlemen, no matter the condition u keep ur car, or how many Porsche shirts u own, the bottom line is the way your soul is stirred when you turn the key....
No Substitute
11-12-2001, 12:32 PM
#17
Advanced
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: No. Va.......
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know really, this is one of these exercise in finger-pointing. None of us is going to admint to being a poseur (who would really?), and all of us consider ourselves enthusiasts. Then we define enthusiast as how we use/express ourselves with our cars. Gets goofy.
For example, until very recently, I'd blanketly accuse every Boxster (even S people) as poseurs, until I ran into a number at track days. So now I have to admit that some people who own boxsters also drive them like other Porsche owners. But in my heart of hearts, the enthusiast drives a big Porsche, and drives it well.
And then there are deepening degrees of enthusiasts, right? I'd say I was about a 70% deep enthusiast -- I drive at the track, and wash/wax the car every week that I can.
But there is, at this time, no way I'd go for a concours, nor do I have many qualms about putting non-year-specific parts on my car. I want to replace the third brake light with one from the 993 era, for example. My stereo is all non-stock, and all the better for it. The guys who restore 356's with perfect production-run parts (Men in Plaid) are nearing the 100% enthusiast-level, especially if they also happen to be excellent drivers of say a tricked-out Turbo (rollbars, suspoaension, etc). That's a slope that will take me many years to get to.
For a while I was driving every day with my OMP track gloves, but fianlly decided that that was pushing things a little too far. Bare hands from now on.....
So I'm certainly an enthsiast, and I'm going to try to not point the poseur finger at too many people, unless I catch them obeying the speed limit on a fast road, as the wind blows their too-coifed hair over the head rest of their 2001 Cabrio, the sun glinting off their gold-tone Porsche Design sunglasses......
For example, until very recently, I'd blanketly accuse every Boxster (even S people) as poseurs, until I ran into a number at track days. So now I have to admit that some people who own boxsters also drive them like other Porsche owners. But in my heart of hearts, the enthusiast drives a big Porsche, and drives it well.
And then there are deepening degrees of enthusiasts, right? I'd say I was about a 70% deep enthusiast -- I drive at the track, and wash/wax the car every week that I can.
But there is, at this time, no way I'd go for a concours, nor do I have many qualms about putting non-year-specific parts on my car. I want to replace the third brake light with one from the 993 era, for example. My stereo is all non-stock, and all the better for it. The guys who restore 356's with perfect production-run parts (Men in Plaid) are nearing the 100% enthusiast-level, especially if they also happen to be excellent drivers of say a tricked-out Turbo (rollbars, suspoaension, etc). That's a slope that will take me many years to get to.
For a while I was driving every day with my OMP track gloves, but fianlly decided that that was pushing things a little too far. Bare hands from now on.....
So I'm certainly an enthsiast, and I'm going to try to not point the poseur finger at too many people, unless I catch them obeying the speed limit on a fast road, as the wind blows their too-coifed hair over the head rest of their 2001 Cabrio, the sun glinting off their gold-tone Porsche Design sunglasses......
11-12-2001, 04:38 PM
#18
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Carmichael, CA
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So where do I fall?
- 1977 widebody targa w/turbo tail
- faded, scratched paint
- factory sport seats with good-sized rips
- 5-point camlock harnesses; factory belts removed
- door panels falling off
- carpet has seen better days
- rear seats removed
- removed all a/c componets
- 3.6L engine with trimmings
- front valence modified for twin oil coolers
- 2 sets of wheels: 1 for track, one for street
- turbo brakes
- "new" (used) torsion bars awaiting installation (22/28)
- driven just about every day (when it's not in the shop) - rain be damned
- oil changed ever 2000-2500 miles
- trans fluid changed about 5 times a year
- stack of reciepts about 4" high
- autocrossed 1 - 4 times a month (SCCA & PCA)
11-12-2001, 04:46 PM
#19
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Carmichael, CA
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I only have 3 Porsche shirts; one 'replica' of a VW/Porsche dealer shirt (can't recall the dealer name); one done in the old 356 style with the dots, and one with a bunch of 917's, shown from the top, on the back.
Originally posted by GeoC2cab:
<STRONG> I agree gentlemen, no matter the condition u keep ur car, or how many Porsche shirts u own, the bottom line is the way your soul is stirred when you turn the key....
No Substitute</STRONG>
<STRONG> I agree gentlemen, no matter the condition u keep ur car, or how many Porsche shirts u own, the bottom line is the way your soul is stirred when you turn the key....
No Substitute</STRONG>
11-13-2001, 09:40 AM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Originally posted by Riccardo:
<STRONG>Piers
I cannot disagree! Except...for eying up girls I take 2CV, generates far more eye contact!?
That is posing IMO. I used to live just off the Kings Rd up to v recently and it was always my nightmare to get out of the house to drive. I often parked a bit further away (this not having to get onto the main road) just to avoid all the traffic and Saturday rif raf down that way. Plus, with all the other amazing cars down the Kings rd nobody will be looking at a 964! The only reason I can think of going is if you are looking at the girls walking down the road...</STRONG>
<STRONG>Piers
I cannot disagree! Except...for eying up girls I take 2CV, generates far more eye contact!?
That is posing IMO. I used to live just off the Kings Rd up to v recently and it was always my nightmare to get out of the house to drive. I often parked a bit further away (this not having to get onto the main road) just to avoid all the traffic and Saturday rif raf down that way. Plus, with all the other amazing cars down the Kings rd nobody will be looking at a 964! The only reason I can think of going is if you are looking at the girls walking down the road...</STRONG>
11-13-2001, 12:11 PM
#23
Intermediate
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by GeoC2cab:
<STRONG>....The best I can explain my own enthusiasm; I am the original owner of my 1991 cabriolet GP white on black; every Sunday for the last 10 yrs. without fail I get up at 5-6 a.m.(depending on season),my wife will stay with the kids and I'll pull the top down and I'm off twoards the sunrise, no radio, just that flat six purring in my ear and I head to the farms and forrests of southwestern New york, plotting new courses, stopping at overlooks, crossing Mountain passes, meeting new folks, I start to head back home 5 hours later,usually clocking over 200 miles. When I arrive the family is up and as I pull into my driveway I give the horn some toots and my boys(1-6yrs,twins-4yrs)come running to the back windows to look out and yell Dada's home!!(they're going nuts)as I put my spoiler up manually to let the engine cool they come running out bk to ck the car out. It is my dream to teach each one of them how to drive it when they get old enough and when I,m to old to drive myself, they will take turns driving me on the same roads, in that same 1991 cab.
As for the posuers; they know who they are.
Is it Sunday yet???</STRONG>
<STRONG>....The best I can explain my own enthusiasm; I am the original owner of my 1991 cabriolet GP white on black; every Sunday for the last 10 yrs. without fail I get up at 5-6 a.m.(depending on season),my wife will stay with the kids and I'll pull the top down and I'm off twoards the sunrise, no radio, just that flat six purring in my ear and I head to the farms and forrests of southwestern New york, plotting new courses, stopping at overlooks, crossing Mountain passes, meeting new folks, I start to head back home 5 hours later,usually clocking over 200 miles. When I arrive the family is up and as I pull into my driveway I give the horn some toots and my boys(1-6yrs,twins-4yrs)come running to the back windows to look out and yell Dada's home!!(they're going nuts)as I put my spoiler up manually to let the engine cool they come running out bk to ck the car out. It is my dream to teach each one of them how to drive it when they get old enough and when I,m to old to drive myself, they will take turns driving me on the same roads, in that same 1991 cab.
As for the posuers; they know who they are.
Is it Sunday yet???</STRONG>
Since buying the C4, I have become a track junkie. My addiction has taken the form of a substantially modified 944 turbo dedicated track car. While my original intent was for the 944 to be an "inexpensive" Porcshe that I could flog on the race track without worrying about possible damage, the modifications from a tired, worn street car to a well prepared track car mean that I now have more financial and emotional investment in the 944 than the 911.
In the last 18 months or so, in addition to dumping obscene sums of money into the race car, I haven't been treated well by the financial markets
and the business which pays my bills has suffered as well. As a result, in early summer I began to seriously consider selling the cab. (Despite the fact that I had sworn since the day I drove the 911 back from its purchase in Tennesee that I would never sell it.) I have vascillated back and forth for months, and last week I decided to pull the car off the road for the winter, and put it up for sale in the spring. After reading your post, now I'm thinking maybe I will keep it after all ! 
I have put off buying a house for this long, I guess it can wait a while longer!It has been a long time since I have taken the time to really enjoy the car. In the last year it has been driven 2,500 miles. Don't get me wrong, it is impeccably maintained, but I had forgotten the joy of simply driving, top down, with no particular destination. So anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts. There is still the chance that economics may eventually force me to sell the cab, but it will be around for at least a while longer. And I will make damn sure I enjoy it as long as I can.
P.S. George, if you are interestested in the company, I would enjoy joining you on one of your early morning 964 jaunts in the spring. I am in lower Fairfield County, CT. Perhaps we could meet in the middle for some top-down touring sometime. Feel free to contact me off list.
11-13-2001, 01:18 PM
#24
Technical Specialist
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
<STRONG>
P.S. George, if you are interestested in the company, I would enjoy joining you on one of your early morning 964 jaunts in the spring. I am in lower Fairfield County, CT. Perhaps we could meet in the middle for some top-down touring sometime. Feel free to contact me off list.</STRONG>
P.S. George, if you are interestested in the company, I would enjoy joining you on one of your early morning 964 jaunts in the spring. I am in lower Fairfield County, CT. Perhaps we could meet in the middle for some top-down touring sometime. Feel free to contact me off list.</STRONG>
11-13-2001, 01:40 PM
#25
Racer
High,
John, Bill, and all metro area 964 rennlister's, THIS IS A EXCELLENT IDEA, consider it done, its gonna be a long winter, so we will have plenty of time to plan, I am up for it totally, lets plan it so as many of us can meet as possible. Maybe at a Porsche dealer somewhere in the middle?, u got me thinking already.....
I like to thank you publically for the kind words John and will surely be in touch w/ u .
Bill, bring that coupe! I dig all 964's, though I lean twords cabs, I would take any model 964, coupe, targa, cab, over a 993 cab!
call me crazy, see if I care
see u guys in the spring!
John, Bill, and all metro area 964 rennlister's, THIS IS A EXCELLENT IDEA, consider it done, its gonna be a long winter, so we will have plenty of time to plan, I am up for it totally, lets plan it so as many of us can meet as possible. Maybe at a Porsche dealer somewhere in the middle?, u got me thinking already.....
I like to thank you publically for the kind words John and will surely be in touch w/ u .
Bill, bring that coupe! I dig all 964's, though I lean twords cabs, I would take any model 964, coupe, targa, cab, over a 993 cab!
call me crazy, see if I care see u guys in the spring!
11-13-2001, 02:17 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Melissa:
Eventhough I don't have a 964 (my dad does) I read this whole thread. There are certainly some out there who bought a Porsche because it is a Porsche. Then there are those who buy Porsches and become enthusiasts. My dad and I were talking one day at the track and he said to me that 911 owners (he was speaking from his own experiences) develop a strange bond with their cars. He has owned a 356, 911S, 944S2 and now his current 93 964. He said he liked his 944 but there was something missing in it that his 911s and 356 had. He couldn't put a finger on it. He wasn't taking anything away from FEWC Porsches which also have their devoted owners. My first Porsche was a 944, which I liked and would still have had I not been rear ended while sitting in rush hour traffic. I didn't really understand what he was talking about until I bought my own 911 ( an 84) in 1999. I thought about this on a drive through the country around Leesburg this past Sunday morning. My thought is that Porsches (911s in particular) have a soul that other mass produced sportscars don't have. I guess you could say my dad and I are enthusiasts.
Eventhough I don't have a 964 (my dad does) I read this whole thread. There are certainly some out there who bought a Porsche because it is a Porsche. Then there are those who buy Porsches and become enthusiasts. My dad and I were talking one day at the track and he said to me that 911 owners (he was speaking from his own experiences) develop a strange bond with their cars. He has owned a 356, 911S, 944S2 and now his current 93 964. He said he liked his 944 but there was something missing in it that his 911s and 356 had. He couldn't put a finger on it. He wasn't taking anything away from FEWC Porsches which also have their devoted owners. My first Porsche was a 944, which I liked and would still have had I not been rear ended while sitting in rush hour traffic. I didn't really understand what he was talking about until I bought my own 911 ( an 84) in 1999. I thought about this on a drive through the country around Leesburg this past Sunday morning. My thought is that Porsches (911s in particular) have a soul that other mass produced sportscars don't have. I guess you could say my dad and I are enthusiasts.
11-13-2001, 02:19 PM
#27
Intermediate
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds great to me guys. Maybe someone should post the concept in a seperate string under the appropriate topic?
Hey, just out of curiosity since you are in my area and deal with the same weather....when do you typically pull your cars out of hybernation in the spring?
Hey, just out of curiosity since you are in my area and deal with the same weather....when do you typically pull your cars out of hybernation in the spring?
11-13-2001, 02:32 PM
#28
Racer
High,
John, I usually bring my car out when it's pretty certain theres gonna be no more snow and it has showered 2-3 good rains to clean the roads up; usually the middle of April, give or take a couple weeks. see u in the sring....
John, I usually bring my car out when it's pretty certain theres gonna be no more snow and it has showered 2-3 good rains to clean the roads up; usually the middle of April, give or take a couple weeks. see u in the sring....
11-13-2001, 03:41 PM
#29
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey everyone,
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the thread, but you've all done great without me! Wow, looks like we even have the Metro area folks...er...enthusiasts...getting together for Sunday morning jaunts. That's the spirit!
Anyway, some very good points have been made. Yes, to the 911 enthusiast, the 911 has something -- a soul perhaps -- that other cars just seem to be missing. To me, I can look at other very nice cars (even Ferrari's) and say, "yeah, it's a nice car, but it's not a 911."
My roommate has a C5 Corvette and is, since buying it, a Corvette enthusiast. Over the past several months, we've been remodeling the house, so many, many contractors have been by, and have checked out our cars. Most drool over her Vette, and hardly pay any mind to mine. I must admit that this hurts my feelings a bit, but oh well.
Anyway, on to my point: I think if I were a poseur, I'd sell the Porsche and get myself a Vette, 'cause that's what impresses everyone else. Since I consider myself a Porsche enthusiast, I will NOT be selling my car simply because it doesn't get the attention the Vette does. The 911 floats MY boat, and I'm the one driving it and paying the bills on it.
And hey, if anyone in the SF Bay Area wants to get together for a Saturday morning Porsche (or other marques) jaunt, I think I will be done with remodeling tasks in a few weekends. So let's roll!
-- Melissa
Sorry I haven't gotten back to the thread, but you've all done great without me! Wow, looks like we even have the Metro area folks...er...enthusiasts...getting together for Sunday morning jaunts. That's the spirit!
Anyway, some very good points have been made. Yes, to the 911 enthusiast, the 911 has something -- a soul perhaps -- that other cars just seem to be missing. To me, I can look at other very nice cars (even Ferrari's) and say, "yeah, it's a nice car, but it's not a 911."
My roommate has a C5 Corvette and is, since buying it, a Corvette enthusiast. Over the past several months, we've been remodeling the house, so many, many contractors have been by, and have checked out our cars. Most drool over her Vette, and hardly pay any mind to mine. I must admit that this hurts my feelings a bit, but oh well.
Anyway, on to my point: I think if I were a poseur, I'd sell the Porsche and get myself a Vette, 'cause that's what impresses everyone else. Since I consider myself a Porsche enthusiast, I will NOT be selling my car simply because it doesn't get the attention the Vette does. The 911 floats MY boat, and I'm the one driving it and paying the bills on it.
And hey, if anyone in the SF Bay Area wants to get together for a Saturday morning Porsche (or other marques) jaunt, I think I will be done with remodeling tasks in a few weekends. So let's roll!
-- Melissa
11-13-2001, 05:16 PM
#30
Technical Specialist
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
<STRONG>Hey, just out of curiosity since you are in my area and deal with the same weather....when do you typically pull your cars out of hybernation in the spring?</STRONG>