I'm still in the process of finalizing the monetary side of my unfortunate rear-ending last October, and now we're to the point of determining the diminished value settlement. For those of you who don't know what this is (I never would have heard of it if it weren't for Jason Andreas and others on this board. I love this place. ) diminished value is a repayment due to the fact that even after a successful repair a damaged vehicle is worth less to a potential buyer. So now I need to present my case to Progressive that my car is worth substantially less now that it is repaired. Any ideas? Anybody seen any ads for post-collision repaired 964s? Thanks in advance, everybody.
Brian

 

Brian,

I would go to a Porsche dealership and poke around. I'll bet you could get something on their letterhead, signed by their Used Car Manager attesting to the dollar loss since it has been involved in a collision. I'd lay it on thick! You might want several dealers to give you letters so they can average it out. You may have to grease a few palms or look interested in buying a new one. I WOULD NOT let Progressive tell you what the amount will be. I can almost gaurantee they will try that. I'd threaten to take them to court if that is the case. When my last Porsche was hit in the front... It only really affected the right front headlight housing but I still was able to get them to repaint the whole front clip, from the windshield forward because they couldn't get the paint to match perfectly. (It was black) I didn't fight over the diminished value because of the high miles it had. I would now though!

 

Indy... I don't know about your state but the states I have lived in don't differentiate between a car that has had an accident and been repaired and a vehicle that has never had body work. They only want to know if you have any unrepaired body damage (Prior to issuing you the policy) and will sometimes schedule an inspection of the car. They want to see if you have a big dent in the fender, etal... There are scam artists that will pay for insurance and claim that the accident happened after they got insurance... when it actually happened before.

The best bet is to get the info from the mouth of a Porsche dealer... Or a reputable repair facility that works on Porsches. They can tell you what the values are in your area.

I work in the auto industry. <Dodging rocks and sticks from fellow Rennlisters> I am a bank rep at present... But sold cars years ago... Then into the finance office... Then got "honest" by flipping onto the bank side. I am starting my own business doing consulting for dealers... And also providing temp staffing for them. Anyway... the dealer is where you should ideally start. They are the pros that spend all day putting money on cars and trading them in. A good Used Car Manager can spot any repair no matter how well it has been fixed. A wrecked and repaired car (especially at the amount they paid on yours Brian) would be valued similarly as a TMU (True Miles Unknown) vehicle. Now... That is when you think about the dealer. The unsuspecting, uneducated consumer may not know or ever find out... Dealers don't have to divulge damage on used cars (By Law)... Only on new cars where the amount of damage is more than 3% of MSRP. There have been plenty of scratched and painted cars that have been purchased by people (Um... Nobody here pf course) and they don't have any idea that the car has ever had a problem. If you want to be assured that your NEW car is pristine... INSIST that you be there to see it backed down off the car carrier! (The dealer will probably want to put you off... Saying... NO... Wait until it's cleaned up!) I've seen so many cars that have had chains dangle on the trunk for 3000 miles and look like crap then be repaired before the customer takes delivery. And they never know. There are a thousand stories...

Brian... If you sell your car to a neophite, first time Porsche buyer... You don't have anything to worry about.. IF you want to handle it that way. Personally... I'd make the insurance company PAY through the nose for your misfortune and loss of your 2nd love and then be honest with the eventual buyer... Having recouped your money now. If you don't do it now... You'll never get it!... Unless... Well... You get the picture.

If anyone wants to know how the dealer world operates... Or has a question about the business.. PM me. It doesn't matter what country... Dealers are the same the world over.

By the way... Some of the most honest and nicest people that you could ever meet work in the auto industry... Selling cars... Working on cars, etc. Unfortunately... about 5% - 10% are bad apples and can give the whole industry a bad name. JMHO

Rick

 

Great food for thought, guys. The way I see it, the more information I have on hand the better deal I'll get. One thing I have working in my favor is that the guy only had $10k in insurance and I had to go through my insurance company. Let me explain...
USAA=my insurance company
Prog=the other guy's insurance company
(deep breath...)Since the guy only had $10k of insurance, I filed with USAA to cover myself in case it went over (and it did, $8k over). Now, Prog only has $10k with which to cover damages, leaving USAA to foot the rest of the bill. After speaking, at length, with both Prog and USAA, I have been told by USAA that I should settle with Prog for the reimbursement for the rental, and for the DV (diminished value claim). Prog and I will reach a settlement on that, then Prog will submit the "package" to USAA; basically, they will say, "Okay, we agree to pay Brian $3k for the rental reimbursement, and $3k for his DV claim. That means we have $4k left over from the $10k to pay you, USAA". USAA will accept or decline this offer, and at that point will decide whether or not to go after the other guy who hit me to recoup the rest of their money. USAA has already told me that they will certainly allow Prog to reimburse me for the rental. That's good. Now, they have also told me that I need to work out with Prog how much I can get for DV. Prog has told me that they really don't care how much I get for DV, because either way they're out a total of $10k. And I quote the Prog manager, "Heck, if I could give you $3k for the rental, and $6,999 for the DV and give USAA $1 that would be fine with me." Now I don't think that would fine with USAA, but we'll see. I think that $24k would be a fair price for my 89 C4 with 64k miles in excellent mechanical and excellent cosmetic condition sans wreck. But I also know that even with the great body work, it's probably only worth about $20k. I don't think someone unfamiliar with 964s would be able to tell it has been repaired, but I know that someone familiar with the cars would (small differences in the decklid setup since it's from a later model 964, a few little burbles inside the engine compartment where the quarters were welded on).
So...
I'm going to go this weekend to a few local insurance companies and get appraisals from them (thanks Indy). I'm also going to go to a few local dealers (I've wanted to test drive a Beemer or a Vette anyway. Just for fun. Thanks Smokin) and see what they'd give me on a trade. Finally, I'm going to compare those appraisals with some listings of 964s in similar condition (Pano: people always seem to ask for a bit more when they list in there , here on Rennlist, Autotrader) and see how much of a difference I come up with. I think that will be a solid bit of research on which to base my claim. I hope that this info does somebody else some good in the future. We'll see how it all turns out. I'm confident that it'll all come out alright. Thanks again everybody.

Brian

 

I have had A LOT of experience with Progessive in and out of the business... ALL BAD! They should be called RE-GRESSIVE! ( No offense to fellow Rennlisters who may have them as their insurer.)

Brian... You may be able to sell this (As I stated earlier) to someone who hasn't a clue and trusts your word and doesn't go for a PPI... But if you take it to a dealer they will spot it a mile away. (Unless you go to Carmax... They don't have a clue.) It sounds like you'll have to go after the guy. You may need to take him to small claims court to get it... Unles your insurance company will pay and then go after him.

USAA is a good insurance company and I would trust them... But you still have to look after YOU.

 

You're right about Progressive from what I've seen so far, Smokin. The first claims manager at Progressive was a real jerk. Lowballed the estimate, told me he'd pay for my rental, then only for the first few weeks, then told me he couldn't pay anything until I signed a release stating that I wouldn't pursue their insured for anything. I didn't sign anything, of course. However, the manager I spoke to last week was much better and we may actually be getting somewhere now.
The nice part about this whole thing is that I don't have to take the guy who hit me to court because I'm getting paid out of the $10k from Progressive and then USAA will decide whether or not to take him to court. That's the way that both of the people I've talked to at USAA have explained it to me (the first guy was my case manager for the last five months, but since the case has now gone to the "subrugations" portion of the company, I now have a new helpful person to deal with). Anyway, I've got a game plan and I'm ready to put into motion. Let's see what happens.
Brian

 

My only suggestion is to use the Porsche Club and get in contact with people who judge concours events. I'm sure they would be able to give you a before and after value and a full list of the reasons for the difference.

 

Now THAT'S an idea! Tell them that when you were hit... You were driving a concours winner with only 4k miles... THEN... You were hit... and all the miles appeared... somehow... you're still not sure how.... but will try to find out.

Actually... I think you are right! The more overwhelming evidence that you present the more they will know that you aren't simply going to sign a piece of paper and go away.