Carrera51

The one I was referring to in my post is a coupe. It has Carrera 4 script on the rear decklid. It has the normal retractable rear wing and the normal 964 brakes.

Adrian

Dear Mark,
Yes that would be one of the 256 to 450 (nobody knows exactly how many) 1994 USA only C4 TLs. These were built up using unsold Turbo bodies mounted to standard C4 chassis. Yes they had standard C4 brakes with solid discs.
They were an interim 911 for the USA because the 993 was not sold at this time into the USA. Many of them did not have Carrera 4 on the engine lid but I have seen some as you have with it.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

9sixty4

I have a 1994 C4 Turbo Look with 4 piston calipers (black) and vented rotors on all 4 wheels. Is this the Turbo underpinnings?

Dirk-Jan

@Adrian: I have emailed said owner. If there is any interesting info I will let you know.

The term WTL and TL is used by PON, the official distributer of Porsche in the Netherlands, as well. Hence my using this term.

Adrian

Dear Jim,
All C4s have well actually they should be titanium grey callipers and vented rotors. Turbos have red callipers and drilled disks front and rear.
Dear Dirk,
When I see WTL advertised I immediately think "fake". There were 15 Carrera 3.2s in Germany converted to look like 964s and sold as 964s. One has to be really careful. Every WTL I have seen has been a conversion.
As I said the truth is located on the 964 and in the original delivery paperwork.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

PS: You should also know that Werk 1 (which has now basically gone) did do aftermarket conversions. The 964 or whatever was finished, delivered and then sometime later returned and had say a widebody kit installed. These are still aftermarket conversions. They cannot be claimed as factory product off the line. However it happens.

Dirk-Jan

Dear Adrian,

I have the VIN from the black non 30-jahre 911 version with option M491. The VIN is: wpozzz96zps402800. The original owner told me that it was originally delivered by Raffay Hamburg and that he had the car checked out through PON and the option code 491 BREITE KAROSSERIE was indeed on the list. I hope this info is enough.

You spoke about 12 unsold 30-jahre edition which were sold later on a later occasion. However, I think they were built up as a 30-jahre edition, as I found a 1994 30-jahre edition (VIN WPO22296ZRS400469). Perhaps some were built as a 30-jahre edition and some weren't.

Adrian

Dear Dirk,
I am not going to drive around in circles on this issue. Porsche do not acknowledge to delivering any widebody C4 coupes apart for the 911 Anniversary in 1993 and the US C4 TL. The 12 that were not delivered as 911 Anniversaries but sold to special customers without the 911 Anniversary logos etc. They were Black and Green exterior colours mainly.
VINs are also no indication of anything. The first VIN you gave is the 2800th C4 or C2 delivered in model year 1993.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

mark lintott

I have one! Its a great car in my opinion. Mine came out of California and is a 94 MY coupe turbo look. I've never seen another in my part of the world but they do occasionally come up for sale in the US. However most of my knowledge on the build nos. etc came from Adrian originally and he's already repeated most of that above.

The turbo look was an option and so the documents must state the option code or it ain't the real thing. Its really a turbo without the turbo, the fixed wing and big red brakes. Its also very different to the Anniversary edition from 1993 (only sold in Europe for one thing)

By the way Jim or Adrian - mine has black calipers and vented rotors too - whats the deal there then unless "titanium grey" is another name for black??

Cheers
Mark

1994 C4 Turbo Look Coupe

Adrian

Dear Mark,
The original calliper code in 1990 was
Black Carrera 2
Titanium Grey Carrera 4
Red Turbo.

I suspect that when the four pot callipers were fitted to the Carrera 2s in 1992 they painted them all black.
Titanium grey is sort of a lighter shade of black with a silvery tinge to it. Well that is the colour of my callipers. The Carrera 2 ones from the same period were jet black.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

America

My calipers are black as well. I know for a fact that I have turbo brakes. Just putting my two cents in.

oscar965

I thought the red calipers on the 964 Turbo started at the 3,6 Turbo ? I have a 3,3 Turbo, and the calipers are black.
Was red standard and black an option then ?

Regards,

Adrian

The American Roadster does not have the Turbo brake system fitted. The system is similar but not the same. It uses some 965 part numbers for sure and some of them are the same as fitted to the Turbo (front end mainly) but not all. The rear disks are solid not drilled, the rear brake bias regulator is different, just to name a couple. A check of the brakes specifications documents and the parts catalogue explains the differences.
You will find Turbo 3.3s with red callipers and with black callipers. Again I have no idea what was going on. The colour code on the callipers was issued by PAG in 1991. Anything coloured could be changed by the way. You could have violet callipers if you wanted them.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

America

I recently replace my rotors, pads, and sensors. They were all turbo parts(new and old)and drilled rotors(front and rear). I have a Porsche service manual and it also states that the America Roadster had turbo brakes. From what I have learned, the older 965 turbo brake calipers are black and the new ones are red. Sometime in 93 or 94 Porsche made the change and I believe it was more than just the color.