lear60man

After reading how fellow subscribers reacted to the guy selling his "slapped together" targa, I ask what is an acceptable upgrade? Would you put say....993 seats or wheels in/on your 964?


BTW: Personally, I would not have made the same options of changes the Targa seller did. But what is the difference between upgrade and custom?

Jay H

I think acceptable upgrades to most people are ones that can be reversed and the car can be easily put back into stock condition. I feel stuff like 993 body kits on a 911SC may not be the best thing for resale value…

Of course, there are always buyers that desire and search for highly modified cars. But I think most potential buyers look for a stock car so that they can perform modifications that they themselves want to do.

Just my $.02

Jay
90 964

GeoC2cab

High,
I have upgraded my car like crazy, yet only adding what I consider the right custom pieces, but what I consider right, might not be right 4 u or the next person, Toms targa is unnacceptable for me, if i went to look at it, I'd turn around and never look bk yet someone could buy it the next day(sorry T). I consider upgrades to be proven products on ur model car, by top name brands that enhance performance (factory, eibach, bilstein etc.) I consider custom as parts that enhance apperance more than performance, there's alot of ugly stuff out there to ruin a damn nice car with!
What it comes down to is if u are gonna keep ur car w/ no intention to sell it do what ever u want to it, who gives a s**t what the next guy says about it...I myself am not big on custom except for some nice factory interior pieces ( I get many compliments on my car;interior especially).I am huge on upgrades however!
But thats besides the point, my favorite upgrades are "Factory",approved for ur year vehicle, yet some high performance manufactuers are the same manufactuers that the factory uses, so why not?
I wouldnt even consider body conversions, seat covers,stereo enclosesures, cup holders, maybe aluminum pedals but then again probabbly not(unless they were made at the Porsche factory), but this is just one mans opinion. Personally before I put 993 seats in my car I would find factory sport seats for our cars(the 993 seats could look a little out of place),as for the 993 wheels; not on my car.
BUT THIS IS MY PREFERENCE, DO WHAT U LIKE!
BE SATISFIED AND ENJOY

tom964

geoc2cab:
If you don't mind me asking, what factory interior mods have you done on your car that draw compliments? Also, have you done any intake/exhaust mods? I'm asking because I also would tend to err on the side of originality in deciding whether to make a modification, but it is sometimes a close call, so I'm curious as to what you have found appropriate.

Also, I am going to replace my top this winter, since it has a tear and is generally worn out looking. I'm leaning toward keeping the original look (although I have been going back and forth on this). Would you put a 993 style top on?

-Tom

Eddie911

I disagree. Porsche cars are not meant to be garaged and driven occasionally. Take your car out and drive it. If it makes you happy, change the appearance. If you drive hard, change the characteristics of the car. My 90 C4 has 18" turbo look wheels with 225/40 and 265/35 S02's, lowered adjutsable suspension (Koni), upgraded stereo (Blaupunkt w Boston Acoustics spkrs, 200w amp), monoballs, strut bars and a bunck of minor handling tweaks. It appears to be stock other than the wheels and the more aggresive height. Take this car onto the track and it drives like it is on rails. The 993 guys ask what engine mods have been done because they cannot stay with it. To me, it is about handling as I doubt if most people can handle the stock power of a P-car except in a straight line(and what fun is that). Do whatever turns you on. After all, you are paying for enjoyment for you, not the next owner.

Just my $0.02 FWIW

Bill Gregory

Key to the discussion is why you have a Porsche, your underlying motivation - and the answer isn't black and white. For example, is it an investment where you'll drive it for a period of time then look to recoup max dollars? If yes, then no modifications may be your best bet, to protect your investment. At perhaps the other extreme, is it yours for the forseeable future, with the intention to get the highest level of enjoyment out of it? If yes, then the modification window is wide open - do what you like. IMHO, there's no right and wrong when it comes to modifications. Each of us is different and has different goals and objectives with our Porsches.
::soapbox off

GeoC2cab

High,
Tom, i e-mailed u w/ my opinions, I didnt want to bore everyone here..... Geo

MelissaM

George, you could NEVER be boring!

Great thread -- controversial & thought provoking.

I think I'll go ahead & bore you with my opinions.

As far as mods go, I think it's up to the person's taste, and as Bill mentioned, their underlying motivation.

Just keep in mind that if you modify your car and plan to resell it, it won't appeal to as wide of an audience. Also, you probably won't get the $$ that you spent on your mods back. As discussed, you'll probably lose the $$.

Even the "acceptable" mods have their risks. For example, if you lowered your car to Euro spec, and I was a prospective buyer, I might worry a little bit about who did the mod and if they did it correctly. So...keep your records so you can verify what shop did the work and what parts were used.

Another good idea is to keep the original parts if possible. Prior to buying my 911, I owned an MGB. It was a 1980 -- rubber bumper B, so not a collector's item. I'd intended on keeping it forever as a second car, so I modified it to my taste. Nothing fancy, mind you, but I had it repainted close to the original color, and put a (non-stock) leather interior in. I also replaced the huge steering wheel with a smaller diameter Momo steering wheel. Fortunately, I kept the original steering wheel, because the new owner wasn't at all pleased with the Momo.

Here's one mod that will probably enhance the value of your car: Have a Ruf technician come out and modify it!

J richard

I used to be a purist and kept my cars a factory as possible, using factory parts only and maintaining original equipment. I got over that when I found out how much fun the cars are "tweeked", and haven't stopped since.

However, the mods I do make are in the same vein as the factory; they are made to make the car faster, stronger, safer, handle better etc... If there is an available factory mod I would use it first before using an aftermarket peice. I think that those types of mods are almost universally appreciated by the enthusiast, and the people that love the cars for their engineering and design.

The mods that usually get the smirks and draw out the fire are usually those made for gratuitous asthetic, over the top, gee look a me reasons. Sort of like a Ferrari body on a fiero or a GT3 twin plane tail on a 912. There is no good or logical reason. Of course the same tail on a IROC bodied 911 with a 3.8 motor and hoosers makes all the sense in the world, its an honest application of an engineering design meant to solve a particular problem (downforce on the track for a car that goes 180mph).

After all isn't the reason porsches are so admired is they are wonderfully simplistic, elegant design solutions for complex engineering needs? This also points out why I think the other extreme is just as bad, bolt on cupholders (biggulp size) and Chevy V8's out back. The art of engineering reduced to bigger hammer technology, no finness, no less is more, just more is more and too much is just right...somebody misses the point.

So modify away, and have fun, its YOUR car, but do like Melissa says and save the factory parts if you don't plan on keeping the car. There is no accounting for need, or the fact that some wives (or husbands, sorry Melissa) don't like a choppy, noisy ride.

PS: I do have a set of 17" 993 wheels I use on my 964, for track use, The rears are slightly wider than the stock RSA wheels, and the painted wheels look very similar to the factory RS ones. I don't ever think the chrome ones look right (IMHO).

Regards

JackOlsen

Here's my idea of an appropriate mod to a 964. Get rid of the overweight shell, and replace it with a more nimble, genuine Porsche product, like the body from a 73:



In all seriousness, this is a good discussion, but one I really can only be an spectator for. My 911 has been so thoroughly modified that any questions about originality have been rendered permanently moot.

Adrian

To me the limits to modifications are only based on legal limits (we have them here in Europe however I do not think in the US you have similar constraints), safety or not exceeding the design specifications of the 964 for that particular version or model. This is very important for the driver/owner and everyone else on the road. Basic good taste which is very subjective also plays a role. I do not believe in modifications just to make it look cool. They have to provide an improvement to performance in some way.
Though tis your auto in the end.
I never believe that purchasing a 964 or any other auto for that matter would ever be called making an investment. You will always put more money into your Porsche than you will ever get back.
Enjoyment is the key. Others opinions (unless you are selling it) really do not matter as long as you are happy.
One mans meat is anothers poison. Even these major brutal reworks seem to sell and why not,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

GeoC2cab

High,
This is acceptable:

Well, since I've been informed I can never be boring(thank u, u know who), I'll go into some acceptable interior custom stuff, I gotta start w/ the factory tequipment stuff;
I use the carbon fibre/aluminum shifter and brake lever and carbon fibre gauge surround(a treat for the driver,I wonder who that is
).just the right amount of carbon fibre w/o going all out. I replaced the vynl trimmed door pockets w/ leather trimmed ones(factory,not cheap to do)and it brings the leather from the pockets and seats and levers together nicely, and finnally floor mats and a rear deck mat all authorized made by Lloyd w/ "Porsche" on the floor, and "Carrera 2" on the deck, white on black, and aluminum door handles w/the crest in em.
umm, it looks sweet(thats what the last guy who looked in it said)

JBH

Jack:

I have now seen pictures of your car from the side and from the back. Fess up...you are manipulating the aspect ratio of those pictures. It looks too long from the side and too wide from the back.

lear60man

Well thanks for all the replies. I feel honored to have a "flaming" topic. My first 911 was a bone stock 81SC with dark brown interior. It was all I could afford but wanted to reward myself for getting a decent flying job. Four years later it had a full leather Cashmire interior (out of a 90 C2) and C2 body kit. The car looked factory except for the Chiffon white color. I sold her about a year ago for more than I paid and well over 50k miles of use. Would I do say a 993 kit on my "new" 964 cab? God no. But I will make her original whithout compromising authenticity. I think my rule of thumb is going to be: nothing that cannot be undone with simple tools. I am leaning toward 17" cup wheels and a set of 993 seats.
Maybe factory aluminum brake and inner door handles handle.

My 81 was a a great learning experience. It was the perfect car for me at the time. Dont get me wrong, I fought urges of wings and flares up the ying yang. But in the end, factoy over flair won. So what did I drive in the year between my two 911's you ask? A 97 Jag (yes full warranty). Great car.......when I'm older. For now, I'll keep a porsche in the family no matter how much the kids complain on the way to school.

Thom Fitzpatrick

I'll never recoup my 'investment' in my '77. By this point, I could have had a nice, slightly worked over Turbo for what I have into this car...