When to move to a 993 ?
03-08-2002, 05:35 AM
#16
I have posted re this subject with Riccardo on the 911 Magazine thread for some reason.....
To summarize I think the 964 could do with more power. It would make it perfect. But it costs a LOT of money to get say 320-350hp. That is why I am considering a Turbo. I have seen a midnight blue example with all the usual stuff for £30k or so. I haven't really got on with Turbocharged cars in the past (see other thread) but I can at least have a test drive right? Maybe a 3.6T will convert me? Or maybe I will just grow up. I like the 964 shape the best so am not considering a 996TT - and I would have to use ALL my cash just to buy one.
As I said, maybe I can get a TVR Griffiths on the side (again see other thread) for around £15k? I would hate to let the bitch go.
To summarize I think the 964 could do with more power. It would make it perfect. But it costs a LOT of money to get say 320-350hp. That is why I am considering a Turbo. I have seen a midnight blue example with all the usual stuff for £30k or so. I haven't really got on with Turbocharged cars in the past (see other thread) but I can at least have a test drive right? Maybe a 3.6T will convert me? Or maybe I will just grow up. I like the 964 shape the best so am not considering a 996TT - and I would have to use ALL my cash just to buy one.
As I said, maybe I can get a TVR Griffiths on the side (again see other thread) for around £15k? I would hate to let the bitch go.
03-08-2002, 10:40 AM
#20
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Christer -
1. If the 30K car is the blue Turbo 3.6 at 911virgin.com - don't even think about it. Not even worth going to see it. I'd be surprised if it even started up. Better off going for a clean LHD example at £25K.
2. Can't remember what point 2 was going to be. But I'm sure it would have been extremely important, and no doubt very useful too. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
1. If the 30K car is the blue Turbo 3.6 at 911virgin.com - don't even think about it. Not even worth going to see it. I'd be surprised if it even started up. Better off going for a clean LHD example at £25K.
2. Can't remember what point 2 was going to be. But I'm sure it would have been extremely important, and no doubt very useful too. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
03-08-2002, 10:46 AM
#21
Greg
Yes, it's the one at 911virgin. What's wrong with it? I don't mind if it doesn't start, just want something to sit in.
Seriously though - it would save me a trip unless this is some cunning plan to prevent me from buying it so you can extend your Turbo empire.
Christer
Yes, it's the one at 911virgin. What's wrong with it? I don't mind if it doesn't start, just want something to sit in.
Seriously though - it would save me a trip unless this is some cunning plan to prevent me from buying it so you can extend your Turbo empire.
Christer
03-08-2002, 11:21 AM
#22
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Christer -
- at the risk of being sued, let me make absolutely clear that what follows is my own personal opinion and is not necessarily an accurate description, based as it is on my own casual inspection of the car, and not on detailed analysis by an experienced or qualified Porsche expert, nor am I attempting to present it as such, you really should go and see it yourself, etc etc etc.
OK - It's a complete pile of crap.
Basically.
The front looks like it's been smashed in. The glovebox and door don't open properly. The headlining in the cabin is hanging off - what on earth do you have to do to a car to get THAT to happen??? Oh, and the engine compartment release (boot release) doesn't operate. At least it didn't without pulling so hard that the **** might have come off.
Does that do it for you??
(BTW You know he also had a LHD speed yellow T3.6 last weekend... it also had signs of substantial bodywork, hinges not working properly and making funny noises etc etc..)
- at the risk of being sued, let me make absolutely clear that what follows is my own personal opinion and is not necessarily an accurate description, based as it is on my own casual inspection of the car, and not on detailed analysis by an experienced or qualified Porsche expert, nor am I attempting to present it as such, you really should go and see it yourself, etc etc etc.
OK - It's a complete pile of crap.
Basically.
The front looks like it's been smashed in. The glovebox and door don't open properly. The headlining in the cabin is hanging off - what on earth do you have to do to a car to get THAT to happen??? Oh, and the engine compartment release (boot release) doesn't operate. At least it didn't without pulling so hard that the **** might have come off.
Does that do it for you??
(BTW You know he also had a LHD speed yellow T3.6 last weekend... it also had signs of substantial bodywork, hinges not working properly and making funny noises etc etc..)
03-08-2002, 12:10 PM
#23
Greg
So I was right - you are building your Turbo empire.
Can we explore some of your comments further or I you now wishing that you had never mentioned this?
1. Looks like the front has been smashed in. Why? And there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that anyway. Most 12 year old cars will have had a prang or 2.
2. The glovebox doesn't open - irrelevant.
3. The headlining is hanging down - pretty much irrelevant.
4. The engine lid opener thingy not working - irrelevant.
Hopefully you will iunderstand here that I am not being rude - it's just that if I take the actual 4 points you listed as the reasons that you call it a pile of crap then I can immediately discount 3 of them as a couple of hundred quids worth of fixes to sort them out (especially the hanging roofliner - Jeff knows my method for fixing that. If it works for fenders right?
). Obviously the smash would be of concern.
What I am trying to say is that you clearly have a lot of negative impressions from having seen the car, but not expressed them fully which is why I ask if we can elaborate slightly.
Hope you don't mind?
Christer
So I was right - you are building your Turbo empire.
Can we explore some of your comments further or I you now wishing that you had never mentioned this?
1. Looks like the front has been smashed in. Why? And there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that anyway. Most 12 year old cars will have had a prang or 2.
2. The glovebox doesn't open - irrelevant.
3. The headlining is hanging down - pretty much irrelevant.
4. The engine lid opener thingy not working - irrelevant.
Hopefully you will iunderstand here that I am not being rude - it's just that if I take the actual 4 points you listed as the reasons that you call it a pile of crap then I can immediately discount 3 of them as a couple of hundred quids worth of fixes to sort them out (especially the hanging roofliner - Jeff knows my method for fixing that. If it works for fenders right?
). Obviously the smash would be of concern.What I am trying to say is that you clearly have a lot of negative impressions from having seen the car, but not expressed them fully which is why I ask if we can elaborate slightly.
Hope you don't mind?
Christer
03-08-2002, 12:59 PM
#24
[quote] (BTW You know he also had a LHD speed yellow T3.6 last weekend... it also had signs of substantial bodywork, hinges not working properly and making funny noises etc etc..)<hr></blockquote>
You certainly don't want a car with funny noises. I once heard about a turbo that had a really creaky clutch.....
Dave
90 C4
You certainly don't want a car with funny noises. I once heard about a turbo that had a really creaky clutch.....
Dave
90 C4
03-08-2002, 01:12 PM
#25
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Christer -
Sounds like you're a lot more forgiving than I am. My impression of the car, based on what I saw, is that it had seen some action and had not been looked after properly. To me this equates to trouble - perhaps I'm over-reacting but I would never buy a car in that condition. My car looked new, but even so there's probably £3K worth of work that could be done on it to get it perfect. With a car like the blue one, I shudder to think how much it could end up costing someone.
But you're basically right - I saw enough to establish that it had been neglected in the past, almost certainly been in at least one major accident and was therefore too much of a gamble. But go take a look yourself - it would be interesting to compare opinions.
Dave - sounds dodgy. The yellow ones with funny noises are the worst...
Sounds like you're a lot more forgiving than I am. My impression of the car, based on what I saw, is that it had seen some action and had not been looked after properly. To me this equates to trouble - perhaps I'm over-reacting but I would never buy a car in that condition. My car looked new, but even so there's probably £3K worth of work that could be done on it to get it perfect. With a car like the blue one, I shudder to think how much it could end up costing someone.
But you're basically right - I saw enough to establish that it had been neglected in the past, almost certainly been in at least one major accident and was therefore too much of a gamble. But go take a look yourself - it would be interesting to compare opinions.
Dave - sounds dodgy. The yellow ones with funny noises are the worst...
03-08-2002, 01:52 PM
#27
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Christer,
I do tend to agree you on this one, many of the points Greg brings up seem to be OK for a 12 year old car. I would also recomend you go and see it, if only because the more you see the more you know what to look out for and have an idea of whats good and bad. I wouldn't buy a Turbo until I saw at least 20.
Having said that, Henry (owner of 911 virgin) is known to have cars on the less expensive end of the scale. He is also the man which insists the a/c on 964 doesn't really work. This doesn't mean they are necessarily crap, just that you will often have to 'make do' with some imperfections, which I guess Greg find unaceptable. Fair enough I say, you end up paying a dealer more money, you expect a better car. Me, I think I would never buy a car from ANY independent in the UK, they strike me as being all a bunch of crooks. A bit extreme, I know, but its something which I end up thinking everytime I have to deal with one.
I do tend to agree you on this one, many of the points Greg brings up seem to be OK for a 12 year old car. I would also recomend you go and see it, if only because the more you see the more you know what to look out for and have an idea of whats good and bad. I wouldn't buy a Turbo until I saw at least 20.
Having said that, Henry (owner of 911 virgin) is known to have cars on the less expensive end of the scale. He is also the man which insists the a/c on 964 doesn't really work. This doesn't mean they are necessarily crap, just that you will often have to 'make do' with some imperfections, which I guess Greg find unaceptable. Fair enough I say, you end up paying a dealer more money, you expect a better car. Me, I think I would never buy a car from ANY independent in the UK, they strike me as being all a bunch of crooks. A bit extreme, I know, but its something which I end up thinking everytime I have to deal with one.
03-09-2002, 11:12 PM
#28
Racer
High,
Move to a 993?, nope., 996?, nope., cash?, nope.
When your at the top there's only one way to go.
So why bother?
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Move to a 993?, nope., 996?, nope., cash?, nope.
When your at the top there's only one way to go.
So why bother?
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
03-10-2002, 12:52 AM
#29
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I wanted a 993 but after driving a few I realized I was not missing much in my 90C2 with mass air, exhaust upgrades, and dropped over 2". The 993's felt a bit quite and dull, and for the money they wanted on top of my C2 there is no way I could do it just for the revaped body and refined rear suspension. My C2 makes as much power a varioram 3.6 anyway. With the money I had started to save for the 993, I bought a TPC supercharger conversion instead.......964's forever!
03-11-2002, 05:05 AM
#30
Ricardo / Greg
I stared out writing another huge post but decided that you would probably get bored so I have deleted and gone back to the beginning.
To my mind, you can just as easily if not more so get ripped off at a big dealer or OPC when buying a car - and anyway Riccardo, I don't think you can buy a lot of 964's at OPC's anymore. Perhaps a few here and there.
I'd like to make one point, I would not buy ANY Porsche without the service history. It doesn't have to be OPC, in fact I prefer it not to be so especially if I know the independent in question.
With regards to Henry Firman, I think he is quite unique in that he is willing to sell you the car as is for a realistic price. I have seen other 3.6T's in the press advertised for £36-£39K with, in some cases, some warranty thrown in. The difference between those and the blue one at 911virgin is huge - plus the fact that the blue one has a recent engine rebuild (it would be interesting to see the docs for that).I only use that car as an example because of course I haven't seen it and the crash evidence may be obvious and deter me as well.
I'll leave you with a little story about buying cars:
I was up at JZM delivering my car for servicing. Another owner pulled up in a J-reg 1991 Targa C2. Semi knackered roof and it works out his car was about 6-7 months younger than mine and with 15000 miles less. He started talking about prices etc. so I told him what I had paid for mine. He had paid £7000 more for his from a dealer (again I don't think it was an OPC, perhaps someone like Autofarm). After the services, we got in touch and compared sizes (as you do). My service cost £1900 inlcuding a new clutch, shaft and bearings and a few other bits on top of the full service. The clutch I knew about from having driven the car and negotiated accordingly. His service cost £900.
Now I don't know much about Targa's and whether they are worth more than a coupe or not - but to me he was crazy to pay that sort of price.
I gvuess we just have to differ on this one! If I do decide to get soemthing new I will of course keep you up to date.
Christer
I stared out writing another huge post but decided that you would probably get bored so I have deleted and gone back to the beginning.
To my mind, you can just as easily if not more so get ripped off at a big dealer or OPC when buying a car - and anyway Riccardo, I don't think you can buy a lot of 964's at OPC's anymore. Perhaps a few here and there.
I'd like to make one point, I would not buy ANY Porsche without the service history. It doesn't have to be OPC, in fact I prefer it not to be so especially if I know the independent in question.
With regards to Henry Firman, I think he is quite unique in that he is willing to sell you the car as is for a realistic price. I have seen other 3.6T's in the press advertised for £36-£39K with, in some cases, some warranty thrown in. The difference between those and the blue one at 911virgin is huge - plus the fact that the blue one has a recent engine rebuild (it would be interesting to see the docs for that).I only use that car as an example because of course I haven't seen it and the crash evidence may be obvious and deter me as well.
I'll leave you with a little story about buying cars:
I was up at JZM delivering my car for servicing. Another owner pulled up in a J-reg 1991 Targa C2. Semi knackered roof and it works out his car was about 6-7 months younger than mine and with 15000 miles less. He started talking about prices etc. so I told him what I had paid for mine. He had paid £7000 more for his from a dealer (again I don't think it was an OPC, perhaps someone like Autofarm). After the services, we got in touch and compared sizes
(as you do). My service cost £1900 inlcuding a new clutch, shaft and bearings and a few other bits on top of the full service. The clutch I knew about from having driven the car and negotiated accordingly. His service cost £900.Now I don't know much about Targa's and whether they are worth more than a coupe or not - but to me he was crazy to pay that sort of price.
I gvuess we just have to differ on this one! If I do decide to get soemthing new I will of course keep you up to date.
Christer