Cesar Munoz

This is my first post, so please excuse the dumb question. I'm looking at 1 990 964 widebody, turbo look. I have yet to find any information on this model. I hope to get the VIN # today, will that clear up any concerns? The owner is asking 24900., which is high, I think. I'll be discussing things like maint. history, etc. Since their seems to be no records on the car (owner did all maint.), is it possible to get the local P dealer to dump the history log on the car.

Thanks in advance for any adive and opinions,

Phatnine11

PC2

Cesar,

Welcome to the board! In my opinion there's nothing wrong with owner maintained cars. Most DIY owners take greater care in servicing their own car than most shops, I know I do. I believe a Pre Purchase Inspection (PPI) from a reputable specialist is more important than maintenance records. A good PPI will tell you a lot (i.e.. collision damages, engine condition, compression, etc....) The asking price is about right for a clean, excellent mechanical condition 964 in Southern California. How many miles does the car have?

Adrian

There was no 1990 model year 964 widebody. This is an aftermarket conversion which means you will not find any information on the model.
Porsche will only be able to provide basic delivery information (which they will charge you I believe $US110 for) and if the data on the car is intact I can tell you this anyway.
The VIN will not clear up anything anyway because it only provides basic body style for the USA even less for the ROW market.
The VIN will start WP0AB (Coupe normally aspirated) or WP0BB (Targa normally aspirated) or WP0CB (Cabriolet normally aspirated). WP0AA = Turbo 3.3 litre coupe and WP0AC = Turbo 3.6 coupe. No Turbo Targas or Cabs in the 964 series.
Ciao,
Adrian.

PS: 993 VINs are slightly different. Above data is for 964 only.

springer3

I ran across a not-turbo wide-body when I was looking for a 964. I was told on pretty good authority that the factory did not sell any non-turbo wide-body 964 C2s. Adrian Streather's book lists the production numbers for the different models. Check carefully to see if this is a conversion. If it is not documented, you may have issues with corrosion protection from the conversion work. Resale value is affected, because an unmolested car will hold value better, unless the modifications are to a very good standard and documented properly.

Dunasso

Am I Raping the thread?

Sorry

Does anyone know what the suspension differences were in the Wide Body 964 v/s NB. I'm speaking of hubs, trailing arms, tierods, brakes, and struts...etc.

Did the Wide Body use the same parts as the Turbo or was it just a Wide version with NB parts?

Duncan

Cesar Munoz

Thanks to all who answered my questions. The car is a conversion using Porsche parts (steel fenders). The owner also added big red brakes, but I thought the hats would have "PORSCHE" cast on them (these don't). The car has 123K on the speedo, the flywheel has been replaced once, no record and last but not least, the clutch is going south. Needless to say, I'll pass!
Thanks again for the information.
Cesar

Adrian

Dear Duncan,
Most of your questions are answered in my book.
The wide bodies depending on which one you mean had a mixture of standard parts, a few turbo parts and some stand alone parts.
They were all different in the parts combinations but none were Turbos without the Turbo if that is what you are getting at.
Ciao,
Adrian.

ruf965

I know my former US SpecTL used the rear calipers, hubs and trailing arms from the turbo and had 965 part no's. The rotors are specific to the 964TL as are the springs and struts. Not quite C2 and not quite Turbo.

The front calipers and rotors are the same as the C2.

Stephen

Saint-Vieux

Hi Cesar;

Not sure if this is your first P-car, but if I was you I would have look for an original none modified 911, which will help you to start from a base line.

Second, 124K miles for a modified 964 for 25Gs is a bet high. As I said, look around you may find your dream c2 or c4.. Good luck
saki

Dunasso

Adrian and Stephen,

Thanks for the input guys. Like Cesar, I too have run across a couple of lame 964 Wide Body conversions that were portrayed as being the real thing.

I think what concerns me, as well as others, is not so much the cars aren't real Wide Bodies, but that they are porely/cheaply done conversions. I for one, would be scared that an inadequate conversion would end up costing me more in future repair, than what could be justified as a rational expense.

Adrian, your book is deffinately top on the list, and would surely have saved me some time. Moreover, thanks for sharing your knowledge with those of us who most certainly could/do use it.

Duncan

Adrian

Dear Duncan,
I love the adverts where they say they used Porsche steel panels from the factory making the purchaser think they used genuine new parts or was some way Porsche approved.
If they did (which they rarely ever do) the entire rear structure has been replaced. Not even companies like RUF do this.
In reality what they do is a standard partial (cut out) crash repair. The rear fender section is cut out and a wider one is welded in.
I have seen an experienced metal basher shape a perfectly formed (dimensions as well as shape) rear flare out of a scrap piece of metal from a wrecked Mitsubushi for such a job.
Unfortunately owners of these widebodies will never find out the extent of what was done unless they have rust problems or an accident and need a repair.
If you ever get to see the process in action it really puts you off.
However with that said, some companies I know who do this kind of work do it to a very high standard at a very high price
Ciao,
Adrian.

JW in Texas

They can be done right. The PO of my car wanted a normally aspirated, wide body & spent $ 14k 10 years ago to get it. All Porsche parts & I have the receipts from the job. The body work was $ 7k of the $ 14k. I would expect that the same job now would easily be over $ 20k total. The only non-factory part of the conversion is that they did butt weld the rear flares like the early 930 turbos. As Adrian said, the 965 widebody cars had proper stamped rear quarters with the flares unlike the early 930 cars which were cut & had the flares butt welded on at the factory. I had a 930 previously & I wanted a non-turbo, 2 wheel drive, widebody 964. That's why I bought my car. I knew I would probably never find another one as nice especially since it only had 34k miles on it in '00 when I bought it. Now that it's supercharged, I can't imagine ever selling it. Faster then a new TT with the looks of a 965 is pretty hard to beat. Oh, and I found it right here in the good 'ol Rennlist classifieds. Thanks again John D.!

Dunasso

Hey thanks again guys.

I thought that the rears were all solid stamped as a one piece quater for all Wide bodied 911s, like the front fenders. I was not aware that the factory welded the flares onto the rear quarters too. So what you are saying, is all Wide bodies have welded rear quarters, yet the front fenders are solid.

Duncan

Adrian

Dear Duncan,
You are confusing yourself.
The 964 factory wide bodies do not have welded on rear flares.
Nor are they stamped either but that is another story. There is a special flaring machine used for this purpose. Scary to watch it as well. It is amazing how much that metal can be stretched.
Some Porsche wide bodies from earlier years certainly had welded in flares to create the wide body look.
The Porsche crash repair allows for welded sections to be installed in the rear quarter panel rather than to replace it all.
Most if not all 964 aftermarket wide body conversions use welded in rear flares.
Ciao,
Adrian.

Dunasso

Adrian thanks,

Obviously the stretching is done before the fenders are attached to the car right? The reason I ask is because I saw on ebay last week that there was a right rear quarter for a turbo 965. It appeared to be new with Porsche part number and sticker on it. Or was this somthing that is braught in as a replacement by an outside source that Porsche certifies as replacement parts.

I'm just trying to expand my knowlege, not trying to be a pain. Maybe this kind of stuff is covered in detail in your book, and if so I'll deffinately be eger to read it, once it is received.

Duncan