C2 vs. 951 which has better DIY potential?
03-01-2002, 02:56 PM
#1
Racer
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C2 vs. 951 which has better DIY potential?
I have an 86 951, 117K miles, with yellow Koni's all around, H&R front springs, Weltmeister bars, a chip, lindsey boost controller, shimmed waste gate, plus a few other mods. I bought the car cheap, in stock form, with 90K miles and a good service record.
I've personally done all the suspension and above performance mods, and as well have performed the following tasks on the car in my home garage- replaced the turbo with a stock rebuilt unit, changed out motor mounts, replaced half shafts, welded up a modifed cat test-pipe that can be swapped out with a stock cat for emission tests, replaced a leaking oil pan gasket, even fabbed an overhead engine bay bracket to support the motor when I pulled the cross member to swap out the pan gasket.
I really enjoy wrenching on the car. You can work on it from above, from underneath, from the front, from the back. And the work nets satisfying results. For the money I've got into, I'm a very happy camper...
...but...
...I want a 964 C2 wide body that is a good candidate for a TPC supercharger, or a 964 Turbo ('cept I'd rather have Motronic engine management rather than CIS). I want to build up a mildly modified C2, focusing primarily on suspension enhancements, but with added HP as well.
The 951 isn't all that rare of a car, certainly the one I bought wasn't a museum piece, so I don't have heartache over hotrodding it. I'd want to find a C2 that is in a similar status, so it too could be a project candidate.
I'd have to limit my garage to one porsche, so needless to say, if I do end up heading down the C2 path, I'll need to sell my 951 or find a C2 seller willing to trade.
I'd love any advice from owners of C2s or 944/951 owners that have both, or have friends that have a C2. I need to know if the 964 is a car that someone with my wrenching skills (or am I just too stubborn/stupid to know better) could have the same kind of access to the mechanics of the car as I do with my 951.
I know the C2 is going to be more expensive to pick up, but it looks like, from checking out the Automotion/Tweaks catalogs and some other resources that a lot of parts are in the same price range as what I spend for 951 parts.
Anyway,
Thanks for any and all comments,
Steve Cooper
note- this thread is cross posted in the 944/951/968 forum
I've personally done all the suspension and above performance mods, and as well have performed the following tasks on the car in my home garage- replaced the turbo with a stock rebuilt unit, changed out motor mounts, replaced half shafts, welded up a modifed cat test-pipe that can be swapped out with a stock cat for emission tests, replaced a leaking oil pan gasket, even fabbed an overhead engine bay bracket to support the motor when I pulled the cross member to swap out the pan gasket.
I really enjoy wrenching on the car. You can work on it from above, from underneath, from the front, from the back. And the work nets satisfying results. For the money I've got into, I'm a very happy camper...
...but...
...I want a 964 C2 wide body that is a good candidate for a TPC supercharger, or a 964 Turbo ('cept I'd rather have Motronic engine management rather than CIS). I want to build up a mildly modified C2, focusing primarily on suspension enhancements, but with added HP as well.
The 951 isn't all that rare of a car, certainly the one I bought wasn't a museum piece, so I don't have heartache over hotrodding it. I'd want to find a C2 that is in a similar status, so it too could be a project candidate.
I'd have to limit my garage to one porsche, so needless to say, if I do end up heading down the C2 path, I'll need to sell my 951 or find a C2 seller willing to trade.
I'd love any advice from owners of C2s or 944/951 owners that have both, or have friends that have a C2. I need to know if the 964 is a car that someone with my wrenching skills (or am I just too stubborn/stupid to know better) could have the same kind of access to the mechanics of the car as I do with my 951.
I know the C2 is going to be more expensive to pick up, but it looks like, from checking out the Automotion/Tweaks catalogs and some other resources that a lot of parts are in the same price range as what I spend for 951 parts.
Anyway,
Thanks for any and all comments,
Steve Cooper
note- this thread is cross posted in the 944/951/968 forum
03-01-2002, 05:17 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
I think you'll find things much tighter quarters in the 964. I had a 944 YEARS ago and it always seemed much easier to get to things than in my current 90 C4. Practically speaking any semi-major work to be done in the engine area requires an engine drop in this car. Maybe not full drop, but, at least partial.
Just think about it logically. The C2/C4 is probably (no specs in front of me) at least a foot shorter and skinnier with an engine that has 2 more horizonatally opposed cylinders. There would have to be less working room.
Just think about it logically. The C2/C4 is probably (no specs in front of me) at least a foot shorter and skinnier with an engine that has 2 more horizonatally opposed cylinders. There would have to be less working room.
03-02-2002, 01:41 PM
#3
Specialist
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Rennlist Member
Our pca group (ususally 2, mabey 3 guys) can drop a C-2 engine in about an hour. I looked at the shop manual, and saw the picture of the Official Porsche fixture which costs $400.00++ that is used on a floor jack, keys into the bottom of the engine, and makes it really a 1-man job. I thought that was pretty neat so I wandered over to the OPC in KC, and surreptitiously measured and sketched this tool, went home spent $15.00 on steel, and made one.
03-03-2002, 03:31 PM
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Steve,
I too had a 951 and absolutely loved it. It is still one of my favorite cars. I started like you, chip, wastegate, mass air, suspension, etc. The car was fast as hell, solid and handled and braked like the best. I lost it to a fire then got an 88 Carrera that I fully rebuilt and modified, and then my current 90 964. I can tell you that the 964 is not that bad to work on. If you are used to working on the 944's and have done stuff like clutches, steering racks, etc on it, the the 964 will be a breeze. I recently ordered a TPC kit for it and currently run mass air and chip. I personnaly find the air cooled flat six very simple and a joy to work on. I was a bit apprehensive about rebuilding the 3.2 in my 88 but once you get the motor out and get into it, it's fairly straight forward. Attention to detail and reaserach are what will make a project like this a success. The 964's have a number of ancillaries that make it look a lot more complex than it is, but once out of the way, there's no problem. The exhaust is also a bit complex but again, no big deal. The ignition system is also a bit of a bastard (changing the wires / plugs will take you all day!).
P.S. Even after running aroung in a couple of 911's for the last few years, I miss my 951. I drove a boxster S the other day and im my opinion it couldn't hold a candle to my modified 951. Once you get into the 911's though, theres no turinging back!
See:
<a href="http://users.ev1.net/~davmanku/porsche/home.html" target="_blank">http://users.ev1.net/~davmanku/porsche/home.html</a>
I too had a 951 and absolutely loved it. It is still one of my favorite cars. I started like you, chip, wastegate, mass air, suspension, etc. The car was fast as hell, solid and handled and braked like the best. I lost it to a fire then got an 88 Carrera that I fully rebuilt and modified, and then my current 90 964. I can tell you that the 964 is not that bad to work on. If you are used to working on the 944's and have done stuff like clutches, steering racks, etc on it, the the 964 will be a breeze. I recently ordered a TPC kit for it and currently run mass air and chip. I personnaly find the air cooled flat six very simple and a joy to work on. I was a bit apprehensive about rebuilding the 3.2 in my 88 but once you get the motor out and get into it, it's fairly straight forward. Attention to detail and reaserach are what will make a project like this a success. The 964's have a number of ancillaries that make it look a lot more complex than it is, but once out of the way, there's no problem. The exhaust is also a bit complex but again, no big deal. The ignition system is also a bit of a bastard (changing the wires / plugs will take you all day!).
P.S. Even after running aroung in a couple of 911's for the last few years, I miss my 951. I drove a boxster S the other day and im my opinion it couldn't hold a candle to my modified 951. Once you get into the 911's though, theres no turinging back!
See:
<a href="http://users.ev1.net/~davmanku/porsche/home.html" target="_blank">http://users.ev1.net/~davmanku/porsche/home.html</a>
