Strabo

Early and mid-year 911s are known for trailing throttle oversteer. When power to the rear wheels is reduced, weight transfers to the front, unweighting the rear tires. This can produce a spin if the driver lifts in a corner. It can also be used to "toss" the rear end and rotate the car in a corner, rapidly changing the vehicle's direction until a shot of power shifts weight back to the rear wheels and sends the vehicle off in a new direction. This is standard practice in driving early 911s.

I have found that my 964 (RSA) does not toss very well. Instead, the rear end tends to stick when power is reduced in a turn. This makes the car forgiving, but also makes it necessary to develop a new strategy to get through turns quickly.

I discovered that if I turned in early and put my foot all the way down, the car sped up and carved its way through the turn very quickly. With a bit of practice, I could anticipate quite accurately where the car would end up.

I am not sure exactly how this happens. The car seems to squat a bit (even though suspension is stiff) and then rockets forward around the corner. It is quite easy to control, even though everything seems to be happening entirely too fast.

While it requires some courage to give it 100% power way before the apex, this is the fastest way through turns that I have discovered so far.

I think this could be described as a power oversteer, as the car definitely changes direction around the corner. Moreover, the rear end can be made to step out with full power on and no obvious wheelspin (car has LSD).

Can someone help me understand what is happening here? Is this related to the 964's rear suspension?

Strabo

Drew_K

Strabo,

I have a C2 and also noticed that my car isn't terribly sensitive to lift-off oversteer. However, it's still useful in two ways:

1. You can decrease the throttle just a little to tighten up a turn, essentially decreasing your slip angle. The car isn't really rotating in the sense of sliding the rear end around, but by decreasing your speed a little it's easier to tighten up a turn.

2. The lift-off oversteer that you're thinking of can still be done in a C2, BUT the rear tires have to be right at the limit of adhesion. If the rear tires still have grip left and you lift off the gas, the rears do lose some grip but they won't slide because they still have some grip in reserve. If the car is *right* at the limit and you lift off the gas, the rear end will slide and you can rotate the car.

As you've noticed, unless you're right at the limit a lift-off will not unsettle the car enough to rotate the rear end. I don't use this technique at DE's, but it can be pretty useful at autocrosses. I'll lift off pretty quickly in the middle of a turn for a second, just long unenough to slide the rear out, then get right back on the throttle to control the slide.

Your technique of turning in early and getting on the gas sounds like early apexing and then understeering your way through the corner. *IF* my description is accurate, you could try doing the exact opposite - brake deeper into the turn, don't carry quite as much speed into the beginning of the turn, turn in LATER, then feed in the throttle after you've begun turning, but don't reach full throttle until your almost finished turning. It won't feel as fast, but I believe it will result in quicker lap times. Giving it 100% throttle before hitting the apex just doesn't sound right; at least not in my experience.

Are your experiences based on DE's, racing, street driving, autocrossing, etc?

I'm just throwing out my ideas and experiences, so please feel free to tell me I'm full of crap <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Drew
92 C2

JC in NY

The 964 rear suspension has better toe control than earlier 911 models thus reducing the oversteer effect we have all come to appreciate, exaggerate and sometimes regret.