danny951

I still can't decide on C4 or C2 after reading and reading about the two.. I'm trying to see if any C4 owners that track their cars wish they would have gotten a C2 so they could oversteer through the turns?

I found a video of a 911 RUF CTR going roun Nurburgring and I was amazed how he was handling the turns.. oversteer at EVERY turn! Is this just not doable in a C4? If this is how I want to drive, maybe I shouldn't get a C4... I love the idea of all-wheel-drive, but I need to drive one to see if I'll like it...

rutz964C4

I have a 90 C4 and I think that your decision has to be based on the use that you will give to the car.

If you want the car to track it on dry I am sure you will go faster with the C2 although I am sure that with some adjustments you can make your car react a bit more like the C2 but with more safety.

I use my car specially on weekends were I go on the mountain roads close to Madrid and the C4 is a lot of fun to drive it doesn´t matter if it rains or snows. I have been driving in the snow with mine and I would´t do it with a C2.

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
ALEX

danny951

Wow.. i can't hardly imagine taking a 911 on mountain roads.. That's impressive.. The only videos I've seen of this were some hillclimb videos.. pretty cool, but all the cars were set up for it--bigger tires, taller suspension. Do you do this with your street setup?

danny951

I definately like the idea of being able to break loose the rear end around a slow corner, like say when slowing to 30 around a steep corner... I assume this isn't out of reach for a stock setup C4.

I wonder if there are any 964 owners close to me that would let me ride around with them and give me a taste of what my heart is set on! <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

DaveK

I don't think a C4 will let you do that - if they detect that the rear wheels are losing grip they will shift power to the front.

danny951

okay, so then won't an awd car let me go deeper into the turns and power through the turn without losing grip? I guess I'm thinking about the benefit of having awd (this would be my only car) and being secure in driving in the rain, etc.. vs. doing some autocross/DE events..

rutz964C4

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by danny951:
<strong>Wow.. i can't hardly imagine taking a 911 on mountain roads.. That's impressive.. The only videos I've seen of this were some hillclimb videos.. pretty cool, but all the cars were set up for it--bigger tires, taller suspension. Do you do this with your street setup?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">When I mean mountain roads are roads with lots of turns slow 40 km/h and quick ones 180km/h but with asphalt, some are bumpier than other, for this I use the street setup.

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

ALEX

rutz964C4

Danny

go to this link you can get an impression of how the C4 drives:

<a href="http://193.155.96.55/porschede_vkr40jahre911/de/vorlauf/en/964/filme_964_flash.htm" target="_blank">http://193.155.96.55/porschede_vkr40jahre911/de/vorlauf/en/964/filme_964_flash.htm</a>

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

ALEX

Johnny G Pipe

If you say you want to drive like a Ruf with the tail hanging out, clearly C4 ain't for you.
If you are wanting the best car for your folding, and you are at all limited in your choice of cars locally, my advice would be not to limit your options, and to look for a great example of either, and in any colour- and when Miss Right comes along, snap her up!

The most important thing with these cars IMO is finding a good 'un, so it doesnt bite you in the bum with a million repairs needed. The difference between C2 and C4 isn't as big as you maybe think.

I don't regret buying my c4.
Some people think that getting the tail out is fun, which it is, but also kind of antisocial on a narrow backroad..
I personally love the feeling as I pitch the car hard into a mixed camber s-curve hard in the torque zone, and feeling all four corners nibbling the tarmac greedily. The car stays bang on line, or slides sideyways a little, but never fishtails, which is the way I'd rather have it.

Rick964

While it is not possible to fling the C4s rear end around like you see when watching WRC don't think that you can't slide the tail out at all. Certainly the computer will take over at some point and route the power to the front wheels which will pull the back end back in line but in my experience on autoX courses I can get the back end out plenty to aid in getting around tight corners. Remember, the computer system is very good and its ability to route power to idividual wheels or brake individual wheels creates a new boundary but can not overcome the laws of physics. Learning to break the rear end loose and even spinning the car, on a skid pad at my PCA regions drivers school, was not too difficult but it does take more speed then a C2 because of the traction control system.

BTW, my car is stock except for H&R springs and a more agressive alignment - read that as as much negative camber as possible with all those stock parts.

joey bagadonuts

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Johnny G:
<strong>The most important thing with these cars IMO is finding a good 'un</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Agreed. That's exactly how I ended up with a C4.

I just spent two days at Road America and I'm thrilled with the way my car handled. Suspension upgrades include: Eibach lowering springs, RS sway bars (25mm F/22mm R), strut tower brace and Kumho Victoracers (225 F/255 R) on 17" wheels. While it's not exactly Yellow Bird, the car can be slid through the corners and tossed a bit when necessary.

The dynamics are different from a RWD car, however, especially the front-engined variety. Power oversteer out of the corners will occur near the limits of adhesion, i.e. at high speeds, and a maneuver with high risks. The traction control will also grab hold of your car and get you headed in the right direction, so it's a short-lived thrill if you haven't lost control entirely.

On the plus side, the AWD C4 does allow you to spread friction over all four corner which means VERY fast sweepers and quick corner exits. The system also allows you to rotate your car gently as you trail brake deep into the corners. And like a front-wheel drive car, you can actually lift in the turns gently to get the nose pointed right should you apex too soon. And yes, throttle modulation in the turns is possible and will allow you to hang it out a bit, but as mentioned, it's not exactly Rally-style drifting.

For me, it's an ideal track car. It's fast and safe and for someone relatively new to the sport (14 track days), it's not a bad way to go. I can certainly understand the desire for a more edgy ride, but with all that weight out back, it's a thrill I can live without ... for now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

BTW, if it rains, there's no problem driving home on track tires--the traction is that good! <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

alan911sc

Being a new C4 owner as of August 2002 and having previously owned 1983 SC the only real regret I have is not being able to bleed the brakes at home. As you probably know it has to be done with a systems tester by a shop or dealer. The reason I have the C4 is I couldn't pass on the deal as I low balled the previous owner offering 5k less than he was asking. It had the usual little problems associated with 964's a leaking power steering pump drive seal, a bad blower motor for the heat in the luggage compartment, and a warped front rotor. I did the valve adjust and plug change and have the car 99% sorted out for about $1200 including new tires. The car handles like a dream and sure sticks around the corners. But at this point I miss the Drivers Educations as it is a Cabrio with no roll bar and the brake bleeding issue. I might in the future consider trading for C2 Coupe if only for the Drivers Ed. But all in all it is a fantastic handling car compared to the old 911SC. I might add without the help of all those who gave assistance and guidence on this board I would still be trying to sort it out and a big round of thanks goes to them.

A Happy C4 Owner

Rick964

Alan,
Don't let the cabrio keep you from enjoying DE events. There are a number of options for roll bars for our cars. I have the Kirk Racing roll bar in my car. It costs about $300, bolts in using the rear seat belt bolts (all 4) and the front legs bolt through the rear footwell using backing plates. I was hesitant to drill holes in my "baby" but I am really enjoying the car on the track and and I am very happy that I wend ahead and did it.
<a href="http://home.san.rr.com/korfin/DSCN1570.JPG" target="_blank">Roll bar picture 1</a> <a href="http://home.san.rr.com/korfin/DSCN1569.JPG" target="_blank">Roll bar picture 2</a>

Ruairidh

Simple direct answer to the question posed in the Topic = no, this C4 owner loves AWD.

But, as is clear to all who frequent the equation of which 964 is best for you is a very personal one - heavily dependent on your desires, needs and prejudices.

And, the great thing is, once you've worked out which model to plump for then you enter into the world of which mod to go for - and the choices are endless!

Harold

I have on a number of occassions got the rear end to come out on my previous C4....no worries about that....