90 C2 Targa For Sale
10-25-2001, 11:22 PM
#17
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
There are a couple worthwhile points in this thread:
(1) Automobiles are a very personal thing - criticism is tantamount to an attack on one's personality. There is always a tactful way to make your point and not offend someone.
(2) Mixing parts from different years and different models does not add value and it very well can detract from it.
Having said that, I will also add that anyone you posts a classified in the discussion board is begging for comment and we shouldn't reproach those who offer it - even those that are negative. If you don't want criticism, put your ad where it belongs.
(1) Automobiles are a very personal thing - criticism is tantamount to an attack on one's personality. There is always a tactful way to make your point and not offend someone.
(2) Mixing parts from different years and different models does not add value and it very well can detract from it.
Having said that, I will also add that anyone you posts a classified in the discussion board is begging for comment and we shouldn't reproach those who offer it - even those that are negative. If you don't want criticism, put your ad where it belongs.
10-25-2001, 11:26 PM
#18
928brothers, I think you might be assuming too much here. Tom's car is one modified by a well-known, well-regarded 964 lover, is being marketed to hard core 964 lovers and will undoubtedly be bought by one as well.
No offense, but the more "professional" you are as a car salesman, the more removed you are from this kind of situation, and the less you are likely to understand about this kind of car and sale.
I have sold numerous Porsches and BMWs, always to neighbors, friends, club members or members of internet "communities" like this one. I modify my cars carefully, keep them in street concours condition or better and maintain them to the highest standards.
They have ALWAYS sold immediately, usually by word of mouth and always at a price well in excess of book guides or typical market values. It is not much of a stretch to see Tom's beauty fitting into a similar scenario.
Occasional sales of special cars by and to friendly enthusiasts often follow different rules.
No offense, but the more "professional" you are as a car salesman, the more removed you are from this kind of situation, and the less you are likely to understand about this kind of car and sale.
I have sold numerous Porsches and BMWs, always to neighbors, friends, club members or members of internet "communities" like this one. I modify my cars carefully, keep them in street concours condition or better and maintain them to the highest standards.
They have ALWAYS sold immediately, usually by word of mouth and always at a price well in excess of book guides or typical market values. It is not much of a stretch to see Tom's beauty fitting into a similar scenario.
Occasional sales of special cars by and to friendly enthusiasts often follow different rules.
10-26-2001, 02:32 AM
#20
982 Brothers:
The value of a car is going to vary considerably with its age, condition, and the miles on it. I have a '91 C4 that just turned over 23K miles (documented, too!). The first owner drove it for a few years at about 5K miles, the second owner bought it and added it to his "stable" of about ten cars. I guess he just lost interest in it, because in five years, he put less than 1000 miles on it. I was suspicious of this so I had the car checked out via a PPI and TWO checks for collision damage (or anything else that could be wrong with it) and every check indeed did confirm the car really did have only 18K miles on it when I got the car. Needless to say, I did't pay in the low 20s for the car.
There are a few factors your not telling us about this $21.5K car you're selling:
1. How many miles are on it.
2. Would it pass a PPI?
3. Is the title clean?
4. Has it been wrecked?
Another factor is the economy. Last year, two dealerships were selling the "typical" 90-91 C2s and C4s with mileage typically in the 35K-50K range for anywhere from $30K up to $45K, and they were getting away with it. I know, I actually almost got into fights with salesmen stating the cars were over priced, and yet someone would just come in and meet their demands. The typical car was staying on the lot about three weeks before getting sold. This year, the very same dealerships are selling the same types of cars for about $25K to $35K, and sometime it's taking MONTHS to sell them.
By the way, I bought mine in early January and thought I got a fair deal.
Bill Wagner
The value of a car is going to vary considerably with its age, condition, and the miles on it. I have a '91 C4 that just turned over 23K miles (documented, too!). The first owner drove it for a few years at about 5K miles, the second owner bought it and added it to his "stable" of about ten cars. I guess he just lost interest in it, because in five years, he put less than 1000 miles on it. I was suspicious of this so I had the car checked out via a PPI and TWO checks for collision damage (or anything else that could be wrong with it) and every check indeed did confirm the car really did have only 18K miles on it when I got the car. Needless to say, I did't pay in the low 20s for the car.
There are a few factors your not telling us about this $21.5K car you're selling:
1. How many miles are on it.
2. Would it pass a PPI?
3. Is the title clean?
4. Has it been wrecked?
Another factor is the economy. Last year, two dealerships were selling the "typical" 90-91 C2s and C4s with mileage typically in the 35K-50K range for anywhere from $30K up to $45K, and they were getting away with it. I know, I actually almost got into fights with salesmen stating the cars were over priced, and yet someone would just come in and meet their demands. The typical car was staying on the lot about three weeks before getting sold. This year, the very same dealerships are selling the same types of cars for about $25K to $35K, and sometime it's taking MONTHS to sell them.
By the way, I bought mine in early January and thought I got a fair deal.
Bill Wagner
10-26-2001, 01:00 PM
#23
Instructor
Soft market right now... All bets are off. Just look in the want ads for boats and sports cars. As the economy softens, so do the markets for "toys".
Tom modified his car the way he wanted it. Just by that fact he is going to focus his potential market more.
Just like painting a house "neutral" colors can make it sell easier, a stock 911 may also be easier to sell and may appeal to a broader market.
On the other hand, there might be someone out there that really likes what Tom has done with the car and be willing to pay top dollar for it - (good luck Tom!)
I think that talking about his car (or anybody's for that sake) is akin to talking bad about his kids.
Just don't buy it.
Tom modified his car the way he wanted it. Just by that fact he is going to focus his potential market more.
Just like painting a house "neutral" colors can make it sell easier, a stock 911 may also be easier to sell and may appeal to a broader market.
On the other hand, there might be someone out there that really likes what Tom has done with the car and be willing to pay top dollar for it - (good luck Tom!)
I think that talking about his car (or anybody's for that sake) is akin to talking bad about his kids.
Just don't buy it.
10-31-2001, 03:22 AM
#25
Race Car
Guys, guys, guys! Tom created the original post on 9/12...he has since then lowered his price - considerably. This post "reappeared" in the last few days or so, obviously due to the disk crash that Mr. Dunkle has informed us of.
While I don't necessarily appreciate people listing classifieds on the discussion board...I don't think Tom deserves the flaming he's received lately.
A 993 Turbo "S" tail and 17" Boxster wheels are not what I call a "slapped together" project. A lot of 964 owners have upgraded to 17" wheels, most from a 993 (Cup II) and the famous "twist" Boxster/996 wheels...this upgrade is very common!
On a personal note, I have both sets!
The Cup II (993) wheels, I use for the track, the Boxster/996 "twist" wheels I use on the street...I really think they add a very hi-tech look to the otherwise stock appearance of my well prepared "Track Rocket".
I will have to say, CHROME wheels have no place in the P-Car world...they just don't "fit"! -and that's MY opinion.
George, you made an adverse comment towards Tom's "cup pipe"...this confuses me as I can name at least 10 people on this board who have a "cup pipe" on their 964, it is otherwise known as the VERY popular PRIMARY MUFFLER BYPASS. It is a proven and effective upgrade, both reducing weight at the rearmost part of the vehicle, and providing a 10-12HP increase...just shy of what ANY custom header/muffler system would provide...no matter what B&B and Fabspeed says!!
Furthermore, M030 springs on stock shocks is OKAY, while M030 springs are an effective upgrade, they fall way short of requiring an advanced shock setup to install them on. Dopke lowering perches are a reasonable touch...remember, Tom bought M030 springs, not Eibach or H&R LOWERING springs, as much of us have, so the lowering perches provide the 1.2 - 1.7" of lowering that many of us have pursued.
928 Brothers, you do seem a bit harsh - where's the LOVE that is usually found on this board? I'll agree that the adverse comment in regards to the resale of a 928 was not necessary, but one should expect to reap what they sew. Update your profile to include your email address and people will find you more credible.
Tom is a great guy, selling a great car...for a considerable amount less than his original asking price - cut him some slack!
If any of you want to buy Tom's car, I'll trade you my CUTE little factory GP White electric, and useless tail for that one! I need the downforce.
While I don't necessarily appreciate people listing classifieds on the discussion board...I don't think Tom deserves the flaming he's received lately.
A 993 Turbo "S" tail and 17" Boxster wheels are not what I call a "slapped together" project. A lot of 964 owners have upgraded to 17" wheels, most from a 993 (Cup II) and the famous "twist" Boxster/996 wheels...this upgrade is very common!
On a personal note, I have both sets!
The Cup II (993) wheels, I use for the track, the Boxster/996 "twist" wheels I use on the street...I really think they add a very hi-tech look to the otherwise stock appearance of my well prepared "Track Rocket".
I will have to say, CHROME wheels have no place in the P-Car world...they just don't "fit"! -and that's MY opinion.
George, you made an adverse comment towards Tom's "cup pipe"...this confuses me as I can name at least 10 people on this board who have a "cup pipe" on their 964, it is otherwise known as the VERY popular PRIMARY MUFFLER BYPASS. It is a proven and effective upgrade, both reducing weight at the rearmost part of the vehicle, and providing a 10-12HP increase...just shy of what ANY custom header/muffler system would provide...no matter what B&B and Fabspeed says!!
Furthermore, M030 springs on stock shocks is OKAY, while M030 springs are an effective upgrade, they fall way short of requiring an advanced shock setup to install them on. Dopke lowering perches are a reasonable touch...remember, Tom bought M030 springs, not Eibach or H&R LOWERING springs, as much of us have, so the lowering perches provide the 1.2 - 1.7" of lowering that many of us have pursued.
928 Brothers, you do seem a bit harsh - where's the LOVE that is usually found on this board? I'll agree that the adverse comment in regards to the resale of a 928 was not necessary, but one should expect to reap what they sew. Update your profile to include your email address and people will find you more credible.
Tom is a great guy, selling a great car...for a considerable amount less than his original asking price - cut him some slack!
If any of you want to buy Tom's car, I'll trade you my CUTE little factory GP White electric, and useless tail for that one! I need the downforce.