Robert Linton

Joey:

Good Morning!

I've seen the Amsoil infomercial before (which is why I was careful to mention Amsoil in my posts above). As to it, several comments:

1. as it notes, it picked the test criteria -- you vary the criteria and you vary the results --indeed, one can slant almost any test to make a particular product (assuming that product is of a certain level) the winner;

2. I do not know what formulations of the other oils were used -- old formulations of Mobil 1, for example, are different from those used today;

3. the test does not appear to include Castrol RS 10W60 -- it does claim to include Castrol R 0W60, an oil of which I know nothing;

4. as you look carefully through the independent test pages and go to the home page of the testing organization, it becomes, at least to me, more and more clear that the testing organization and Amsoil have a relationship that is suspect as to its independence;

5. as to cooperative marketing agreements, I agree with you, they do take an element of objectivity out of it (on the other hand, when, two years ago, BMW had problems with the then new M5 motor and, as a fix, had to require owners to use the Castrol RS 10/60 as a means to solve BMW's problem [yes, Castrol is a sponsor of Frank Williams' BMW F1 team but when faced with extremely expensive engines being destroyed and being covered under warranty, the answer was quality not cooperative marketing]);

6. cooperative marketing aside, however, in their race engines, while, particularly in years gone by when certain teams sponsored by oil companies not having oil of the quality of, in those days, Mobil 1, poured oil (in front of the TV cameras) in the containers of their sponsors, inside was Mobil 1, today the companies actually use the products of, in particular Mobil, Castrol and Shell -- and, and although my knowledge is limited, I know of know high level race team that uses Amsoil, Royal Purple, etc.

Bob

P.S. Personally, for a combination of fuel efficiency and cold weather utility, I would prefer the Mobil 1 15W50 over the Amsoil 20W50 tested and the even wider range Castrol RS 10W60 (Shell also has a 10W60 that is used in the Ferrari Challenge Cars) even more as it gives more cold temperature utility and high temperature protection!

P.P.S. Stirring things up, challenging, asking questions is what advances all aspects of our being (of which automotive engineering is among the most insignificant components) -- to go with only one set of alternatives, to never question the norm or authority is the sure path to mediocrity at best and disaster at worst.

Adrian

Dear Marc,
AGIP are let us say a rather large Italian petro-chemical company. It is very popular around these parts. As with the vast majority of available oil, it does the job very well it was designed for. 964 owners also need to be aware that oil is used for cooling and lubrication.
A sigificant player in the oil to use debate is availabilty. Not all these oils listed are available in every country of the world. Motorex is a Swiss brand, very good oil but no point looking for it in many other places. We had a situation a year ago when Mobil 1 was like rocking horse pooh to find. Castrol GTX was everywhere.
I believe it is a good idea also to listen to your mechanics. See what you can get but if you are happy with what you use, then I recommend you stick to it. For normal road users they are all much or a muchness and the main driver shoul dbe your environment. Outside temperatures are very important for start up. The oil must be rated to handle outside temperatures. Once the engine is up to temp most oils do a similar job. The debate can continue for years over which is the best oil. In fact the best oil is like the best fuel, use what you are happy with. If it ain't broke do not attempt to fix it. Always remember that the cheapest is not always the worst and the most expensive not always the best. R&D budgets are also worthless as an indicator. Mobil left every piston engined powered aircraft in Australia grounded until their engines had been overhauled a couple of years ago. It actually sent many private aircraft owners broke. Mobil recently developed a new oil which in some applications actually destroyed the seals. Again in aviation but these things happen,
Ciao
Adrian
911C4

PS: Another side issue is that all these companies keep changing owners. Merging, selling off parts etc etc. One day you are purchasing Mobil, the next it is Exxon in a Mobil tin. Very hard to keep up and even harder to keep on top of what you are actually purchasing.

Emanuele Ferry23

I use too my 964 only during weekends.
My mechanic & former 964 owner suggested me Castrol RS 10W60. I've tried it and I think it's a good choice. I think that a 15W... oil is a bit too tough for the pump at startup ( there are 8 meters of oil lines! ) especially when weather is cold. With Castrol RS I've dramatically reduced warm up time. I engage 1st gear when pressure has dropped to 2 bar at idle and this happens after just 5-6 minutes.

The only problem is price : I paid 17.5 Euros ($16.45) per litre, which is not properly a bargain!!

AGIP is a very popular choice in Italy. It's a company with a long tradition in half and fully synthetic oils. The SINT serires dates back to late seventies. Now there is SINT2000 Evolution which is a 10W50 (I think). Good oil indeed.

joey bagadonuts

Great discussion! I think we all came away with some new perspective. I'll definitely be asking my mechanic a few more questions about motor oils during my next visit.
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